I am a time traveller from the year...

I wonder if a teleporting psychopathic axe murdering Darby would be just as disappointed, if when playing pool with his electrons that he didn't produce cream cheese?
 
But you know why... trolls love being fed.
Click to expand...

But hoaxers are not "trolls". If they were, we wouldn't have an entire section called "Time Travel Claims" which is practically dedicated exclusively to them. And more importantly - if they were "trolls" we wouldn't be returning here every day to talk with them. We're not that stupid, right? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif


It's all about attention, right?
Click to expand...

No argument there.


For the many years that I have been here, I think this is the most effective argument against a TT hoaxer being the real thing: If you had the power to TT, why in the hell would you (a) Want to tell anyone or (b) Waste time telling anyone that you did not wish to convince?
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you about (b).

As for (a) - I think that depends on the specifics of the scenario at hand. Surely you can think of a situation in which a time traveller would want to spend some time with some "locals" who are interested in time travel? It's not that unlikely. Of-course, if the guy claims to be some undercover agent on a top secret mission, it's a whole different ballgame :D
 
But hoaxers are not "trolls". If they were, we wouldn't have an entire section called "Time Travel Claims" which is practically dedicated exclusively to them. And more importantly - if they were "trolls" we wouldn't be returning here every day to talk with them. We're not that stupid, right?
Click to expand...

Trudat. Technically, they are not trolls (except possibly to the people who desperately want to believe in TTers). But perhaps they act somewhat "trollish"? The thing they do have in common with trolls is that trolls generally like attention. But I acquiesce your point, kind sir. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of-course, if the guy claims to be some undercover agent on a top secret mission, it's a whole different ballgame
Click to expand...

Yeah, we generally hear that part of the story come around when someone asks them a question they don't know how to answer, or one that involves telling us some future outcome. What is amazing is that anything they make up that has no hope of ever being verified never seems to be "mission classified information". Wonder why that is? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RMT
 
Quoted Lord Raydemort:

Yeah, we generally hear that part of the story come around when someone asks them a question they don't know how to answer, or one that involves telling us some future outcome. What is amazing is that anything they make up that has no hope of ever being verified never seems to be "mission classified information". Wonder why that is?
Click to expand...

Speaking of Future Outcome, what about this:
Quoted:
<font color="red"> Swat Team conducts food raid in rural Ohio

December 4, 2008 [/COLOR]

<font color="blue"> On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from approximately 11 AM to 8 PM. The team was aggressive and belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, the “bad cop” SWAT team was relieved by another team, a “good cop” team that tried to befriend the family. The Stowers family has run a very large, well-known food cooperative called Manna Storehouse on the western side of the greater Cleveland area for many years.

There were agents from the Department of Agriculture present, one of them identified as Bill Lesho. The search warrant is reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of the family’s possessions, a task that lasted hours and resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant. The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their rights. Over ten thousand dollars worth of food was taken, including the family’s personal stock of food for the coming year. All of their computers, and all of their cell phones were taken, as well as phone and contact records. The food cooperative was virtually shut down. There was no rational explanation, nor justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights.

Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running a retail establishment without a license. Why then the Gestapo-type interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? This incident has raised the ominous specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and enforcement over the nation’s private food supply. [/COLOR]

end quoted...

More at:
web page

:eek:
 
Jesus Christ recall....you had to bring that sore subject up over here also?

Thats what you get when you Bait the Feds and they have interstate commerce violations.
 
Recall,
Do you know where this original article came from? I live about 30 minutes from LaGrange and have searched the local papers and TV stations (Lorain, Cleveland) and there is nothing about it there. Looks like it's bogus unless we have a link to the original article.
 
I live about 30 minutes from LaGrange and have searched the local papers and TV stations (Lorain, Cleveland) and there is nothing about it there.
Click to expand...


there is a link...

http://steveandpaularunyan.blogspot.com/2008/12/manna-storehouse-family-update.html

"Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: appreciation &amp; present situation

Hi everyone. First of all, we would like to thank everyone for the phenomenal support and encouragement you have given us during this very difficult time for our family. We have been unbelievably overwhelmed with the outpouring of love and concern from many, many people.

At this point, we still have not been charged with anything, so we are devoting most of our time to research. We are trying to prepare ourselves for what lies ahead.

Many people have asked how they can help. Here are a few things that we are in need of.
Click to expand...
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Sorry recall didn't mean to be so hard on you, I did contact the governors office, because apparently they took ALL their foodstock and money, I specifically requested they return the personal stocks and the cash to defend them selves.


But that was all.

They specifically baited the Fed and State into this action , by the disclaimers on their website and the words from their mouths.


Here:

NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT

Members agree that by joining Manna Storehouse you state that you are not an employee of any federal, state or local government agency. Any transaction, communication or observations by you and/or anyone with you cannot be reported or communicated in any way to any federal, state or local government agency; nor used in a court of law against Manna Storehouse or any member of the Stowers family.

mannastorehouse
 
ahhhh!,

Ok. Bro...

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif

But:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/263090
Quoted:
<font color="red"> Brannon Howse interviewed John Loeffler about his article on ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com on why SWAT police, armed for riot control weapons, packing automatic rifles and armored for a terrorist response stormed a family food cooperative in Ohio. [/COLOR]

060505policeline_210.jpg
 
don't forget texas mr. darby, im sorry about my post i tend to get incompetent when i'm up to long...

here some links.. i could not find the actual study info, i'll keep looking...

link

link
 
Recall,
Do you know where this original article came from? I live about 30 minutes from LaGrange and have searched the local papers and TV stations (Lorain, Cleveland) and there is nothing about it there.
Click to expand...

You just had to spoil the guy's fun with some good solid facts, didn't you? Too bad Recall didn't think of the possiblity of somebody from the actual neighborhood posting on this board.

"I live there". Boy, I just love it when refuting b.s. gets this easy.
 
I don`t think so...

http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2008/12/03/news/mj309059.txt

Quoted:
Local food cooperative searched by state
<font color="blue">
Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:42 AM EST

By MORNING JOURNAL STAFF
[email protected]

PITTSFIELD TOWNSHIP — An Ohio Department of Agriculture agent seized food, electronic devices and documents from a Pittsfield Township organic and natural food cooperative believed to be unlicensed, according to a search warrant filed yesterday in Lorain County Common Pleas Court.

Jacqueline and John Stowers, owners of the Manna Storehouse, 43565 SR 303, were inspected in November 2007 by the Lorain County General Health District, according to court records.

On Monday, ODA enforcement agent William Lesho confiscated hundreds of pounds of processed beef and large amounts of lamb, turkey and other perishable products in addition to office files, a computer, two cell phones and other electronic devices, according to the search warrant inventory. The items were taken to establish the Stowers' ownership in any property, records of hidden wealth or illegal income and anything that would establish illegal activity, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Jacqueline Stowers declined to comment because she had not seen the court papers yesterday evening.

A health district sanitarian and two other inspectors visited the cooperative on Nov. 30, 2007, to make observations and were told to leave. Jacqueline Stowers wrote in a December 2007 letter to the sanitarian that the inspectors never had permission to be on their property and that the Manna Storehouse is not operating a retail food establishment that requires a license.

"We declare now that we do not want to be a 'licensed retail food establishment' or a 'food service operation' and we do not plan to become one in the future and that we will not knowingly conduct any activities that would require that type of licensing," she wrote.

The matter was forwarded to the Lorain County Prosecutor's Office after the Lorain County General Health District received her letter, according to court records.
[/COLOR]

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
Thanks for taking us so far off topic, recall. But I guess that's just typical of recall, eh?


/ttiforum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

RMT
 
Swat Team conducts food raid in rural Ohio

December 4, 2008

On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from approximately 11 AM to 8 PM. The team was aggressive and belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, the “bad cop” SWAT team was relieved by another team, a “good cop” team that tried to befriend the family. The Stowers family has run a very large, well-known food cooperative called Manna Storehouse on the western side of the greater Cleveland area for many years.

There were agents from the Department of Agriculture present, one of them identified as Bill Lesho. The search warrant is reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of the family’s possessions, a task that lasted hours and resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant. The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their rights. Over ten thousand dollars worth of food was taken, including the family’s personal stock of food for the coming year. All of their computers, and all of their cell phones were taken, as well as phone and contact records. The food cooperative was virtually shut down. There was no rational explanation, nor justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights.

Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running a retail establishment without a license. Why then the Gestapo-type interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? This incident has raised the ominous specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and enforcement over the nation’s private food supply.
Click to expand...

This is a good article for those who really want to take a good look at how the post-modern "media" reports the news.

Before making any other comments I will just state that I have no idea about what actually occured at the Stower's home...and that the article didn't do anything to assist me with making that determination. It's a valid news piece that should be reported. But is this how we want to receive our news?

OK. Let's look at the article:

On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from approximately 11 AM to 8 PM.
Click to expand...

First and foremost, what is the source of this point of view? As stated, the verbage is inflammatory.

Having served my fair share of search warrants (I stopped counting after the first hundred or so) I can say that at least in part the characterization is somewhat correct. Everyone present during the service of a search warrant would be placed together in one room.

Would they be held "at gun-point" for several hours? Absolutely not. I'm sorry, but guns are heavy. Try holding a rifle, pistol or shotgun in your hand and point it at something for ten minutes. Now try doing it for nine hours. Don't have a firearm? No problem. Just use a two lb. weight and hold it out as if pointing a gun for ten minutes - then nine hours.


This part is purposely misleading, not true and inflammatory. It didn't happen.

Of course a search warrant was used to "enter a private residence". If it was a public place a search warrant, in most cases, wouldn't be necessary. The intent was to inflame even though the statement was factual.

The team was aggressive and belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, the “bad cop” SWAT team was relieved by another team, a “good cop” team that tried to befriend the family.
Click to expand...

Again, what is the source of the characterization "aggressive and beligerent"? What actions are being reported in the article to support the characterization?

At some point, according to the article, tensions were relaxed when the entry team was relieved by the search team. And what? The "good cops" also held everyone at gun-point after the "bad cops" left? There's a rather large contradiction here.

What is the source of the "good cop-bad cop" characterization? What actions are indicated in the article that this was the intent? Without evidence to the contrary it appears to be just another inflammatory editorial statement.

The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their rights.
Click to expand...

Again, possibly correct statements but again, inflammatory. There's nothing that says that anyone asked for and was denied a phone call. But they aren't necessarily entitled to one. That depends on Ohio law. Generally the phone call rights don't come into effect until after being arrested. There's no indication that they were under arrest or that they could not have been searched pursuant to the warrant and allowed to leave the premises - questions that the article should have covered. That they weren't informed of what crime they were being charged with is misleading. They wouldn't necessarily be charged with a crime until after the search warrant was served, the evidence collected, reviewed and a complaint filed in court by the DA. Search warrants are investigative tools.

Were the Stower's aware of why the officers were there and what they were investigating? Of course they were. The Stowers were served with a copy of the search warrant that stated the reason why the officers were there and what they were seeking.

That they weren't read their rights isn't necessarily a problem. The reading of Miranda rights is only required when questioning focuses upon an individual and becomes accusatory.

There's no indication in the article that any interrogation occured. Without an accusatory interrogation it isn't required that they be informed of their Constitutional rights. The particulars of what transpired relative to an interrogation should have been covered in the article. But it wasn't. Why not?

Inflammatory editorialization.

There was no rational explanation, nor justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights.
Click to expand...

Nor is there a rational explanation in the article that states what Constitutional rights were violated, extreme or otherwise. The article does, however, state that a search warrant was served in compliance with the 4th Amendment of the Constitution: "...no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The affadavit in support of the warrant was reviewed by and signed by a magistrate. A judge apparently believed that there was a rational explanation and justification for the search.

Another inflammatory editorial comment.


The search warrant is reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of the family’s possessions, a task that lasted hours and resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant.
Click to expand...

What is the source of "the search warrrant is reportedly suspicious-looking"? According to whom? What was suspicious-looking? If the reporter had information about this why wasn't it reported in the article? Another inflammatory editorialization.

Agents began rifling through [everything]. What else would be expected? It's a search warrant.

One problem that could arise involves the seizure of items not listed on the search warrant. It's not necessarily fatal to the four-corners of the warrant but any expansion of the scope of the warrant has to be justified. That would be taken care of at the Ohio equivalent of a California 1538.5 PC hearing (motion to supress). But the scope of a search warrant can be expanded based on what is found at the scene. That evidence will be treated seperately from the search warrant evidence. It could be supressed - it could even lead to suppressing some or all of the evidence collected pursuant to the warrant itself. This item might be the only neutral and factual statement made in the article.

The bottom line here is that this article, though a bit extreme, is pretty typical of how the news is being reported to us. It's more about the reporter and the reporter's political thoughts than it is about getting facts to the public.

Worse, if you take the time to do the Google you discover dozens of "hits" on the subject "LaGrange, OH + Stower". You also discover that it's just the one article being copy-pasted verbatim over and over. No other reporter seems to be concerned with getting to the facts and reporting them...which is, again, typical.
---------------------------
Something, however, is missing here. I don't know what it is but I do know that it is very atypical for an agency to serve a search warrant on a business to search for evidence of a non-violent crime and to take along with them a SWAT team. Unfortunately, there's nothing in the article that justifies the characterization that the entry team was a SWAT team. For all I know, and the general "flavor" of the article makes it somewhat likely, there was no SWAT team - just a group of officers all of whom were armed...but the SWAT characterization was tossed in to sensationalize and inflame the situation. Just a guess based on the totality of the reporters techniques used in the article.

I do know that for a search warrant to be issued it can only be issued for a limited number of reasons:

1. To search for evidence of a felony crime;
2. To search for the "fruits" of a crime - usually stolen or embezzled property even though the original crime may have been a misdemeanor
3. Search warrants are not issued for misdemeanor crimes
4. "Administrative" search warrants are occassionally issued to allow inspectors onto a business property when the busines has prevented the inspectors from conducting their inspections.

So, what felony crime was being investigated? Or was it a case of inspectors being prevented from doing their routine inspections and/or inspections in response to a specific public complaint?

There's something missing in the article, as I said. That "something", I suspect, is an item that the reporter purposely left out because it would not fit the profile of what s/he wanted to report here.

In any case this situation might be a case of really bad news reporting. It might be a case of really bad law enforcement techniques. It might be a case of a company that was operating far outside the food handling health guidelines (we have seen several cases recently where hundreds of people becamse ill, some dying, because of unsafe food handling). It is probably all of the above. But...

we just elected a new federal government that has boldly stated that they want to have their fingers in every aspect of what should be the private areas of our lives. Among other things they want to regulate, by hook or crook: what we eat.

And this case did come from Ohio...

The real concern, however, is still one of how we get our news today. I read articles like the above and I'm left with a gloomy outlook - not regarding the items being reported but gloomy about how we, as citizens, are to know what's really going on in the world around us when we have to rely on crappy, amateurish reporting like this.
 
Recall,
Thanks for the link. I used the papers search and came up with nothing for some reason.

Rainman,
I live a small town no one has ever heard of, but it's about 20 min SE of the roller coaster capitol of the world. Sandusky is also becoming home of the country's largest indoor waterpark, Kalahari.

Darby,
Our newspapers are not known for their impartial or completely correct reporting, but I do wonder why this story didn't show up anywhere else.

PH
 
i agree with you ruthless man,Reel Time Travelers must show evidence from his/her timeline,so in that way will be so difficult to debunk him/her /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Okay, I've been having these episodes that started last year. I would be in the middle of doing something and suddenly find myself in a strange place, then this weird feeling came over me as years of my life were stripped from me, leaving me temporarolly disoriented, but once it past I knew where an when I was but had no Idea I had just come from the future. I was back in my past self living out some random part of my life.This would continue for minutes, Hours, one time even over three weeks. I was living my life as I originally had because I believed I was myself from back then. When I returned to the present I had the inital disoriented of before but I was having my mind filled with all the knowledge and experience that was stripped from me was returned. When I got back, the portion of my life that I had been reliving was still fresh in my mind. I could remember Events from the time period with more clarity and people I have long since forgotten about. I've had a couple of trips to the future, atleast as far as I could tell. The future is very different from the past. I only have a couple of scenes that I can even remember, I assume that my mind has been stripped like before, and this is why I can seem to recall things from then. but the things I do remember give me feelings of deja vu, and I can only really infer the situation through instinct. For example, one thing I can remember was holding a baby with a woman sitting across from me (I assumed the baby was mine and the woman was the babies mother) But the really strange thing was that everything I saw was in constant shift and the people would change, morphing rapidly between who they were. Most would change with the background, and a few like the wife and child would stay in relatively the same position from me, but the person would change. The baby flashing between races and eye/hair color, a couple of times appearing dead. I'm guessing the only reason I even remembered it was because it was very emotional. and the ones when I travel to the past rarely were. I believe I might be time traveling, but I can never change anything because I can't remember anything, but the only thing usefull seems to be the ability to recall what has been forgotten. as for the future events, I believe they are in constant shift because they are not set yet. And the whole memory loss thing might just be a way for nature to prevent a paradox.
Meant to add that after I returned no one seem to notice anything, just me kind of normal one minute then the next second I'm acting all weird, no matter how long I was gone, it seemed no time passed in the present. It really sucked when I was working because it madee my shift that much longer.
 
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