How to send a message to the past

If you yourself could come back in time 30 seconds to the past there would be two you(s). You A and You B would be the same matter.

This is a conjecture, not an established fact. Do you have any way to prove that your conjecture is true? Have you run such an experiment?

It is kind of like matter and anti-matter but here both matters would be the same.

Except that you are merely making a hypothetical situation. As far as I know from your abilities, you have no way to prove this hypothetical situation would actually happen as you have conjectured. I see you do this a lot, and it relates to what Darby was talking about with writing in the "omniscient voice". You often appear to get confused about what is factual and can be proven and what you think should be true, but is not proven as true. Such confusion is what can lead you off to conclusions that have no basis in fact, and those lead to logical errors.

RMT
 
There is a principle of the same matter means just that. A can of coke and a can of sprite do not fit what I was talking about. If you yourself could come back in time 30 seconds to the past there would be two you(s). You A and You B would be the same matter. Now if You A touched You B that same matter would be trying to take of the same space. You A and You B according to the same matter principle would destroy each other. It is kind of like matter and anti-matter but here both matters would be the same. That is what I ment.

These effects depends if you land in the same timeline or a different version of the Timeline, in either case the timetravel device will be different to get the same or alternate reality...

alternatetimeline.jpg
 
For starters I believe through some phenomenom in quantum theory matter cannot literally occupy the same space.

More precisely Pauli's exclusion principle of QM states that no two identical fermionic particles can simultaneously share the same quantum state, which involves more than just the 3D position state. Fermions include electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks and their anti-particles. Fermions have 1/2 integer spin numbers (1/2 3/2, etc).

Exclusion does not apply to bosonic particles such as photons, mesons and all other particles with integer spin numbers (1, 2, 3). Bosons can simultaneously occupy the exact same quantum state.
 
More precisely Pauli's exclusion principle of QM states that no two identical fermionic particles can simultaneously share the same quantum state, which involves more than just the 3D position state. Fermions include electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks and their anti-particles. Fermions have 1/2 integer spin numbers (1/2 3/2, etc).

Exclusion does not apply to bosonic particles such as photons, mesons and all other particles with integer spin numbers (1, 2, 3). Bosons can simultaneously occupy the exact same quantum state.

So it is correct to state matter cannot occupy the same "time-space"?
 
In reply to:
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If you yourself could come back in time 30 seconds to the past there would be two you(s). You A and You B would be the same matter.


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This is a conjecture, not an established fact. Do you have any way to prove that your conjecture is true? Have you run such an experiment?


In reply to:
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It is kind of like matter and anti-matter but here both matters would be the same.


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Except that you are merely making a hypothetical situation. As far as I know from your abilities, you have no way to prove this hypothetical situation would actually happen as you have conjectured. I see you do this a lot, and it relates to what Darby was talking about with writing in the "omniscient voice". You often appear to get confused about what is factual and can be proven and what you think should be true, but is not proven as true. Such confusion is what can lead you off to conclusions that have no basis in fact, and those lead to logical errors.

RMT

Well first of all RMT if you look at this forum it says somewhere this is a fictional forum and I am just another member posting to this board. So I don,t have to run science experiments here and I can post logical conslusions and it will be ok. And as you know only you would be interested in reading a science paper most people here would not get past the first paragraph before they could no longer understand it so there is no reason to bore everyone. I am here to post only as a TTI member the same as you and everyone else here. And, you can run experiments too you don,t need me to do it for you.

Now, let me try to help you understand what I was saying. Matter can not share the same state. It has to have different states for replusion and or exchange interaction to keep it apart. I believe you know what I am saying. Without that different state matter becomes unstable. Now, if someone traveled to the past to meet themselves just merely touching themselves maybe not trying to beam into themselves as I suggested a paradox could do they could cause there matter to become unstable if their matter shared the same state which in theory is possible to do with time travel but of course that does not happen in nature. Many movies have used this principle because it is from science and it does apply in theory to time travel. Get it? That is what I was trying to say. So, as you see I am not as wrong as you would like me to be. Sorry. Here is a quote I pulled from a link.

Stability of matter
The stability of the electrons in an atom itself is not related to the exclusion principle, but is described by the quantum theory of the atom. The underlying idea is that close approach of an electron to the nucleus of the atom necessarily increases its kinetic energy, basically an application of the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg.[2] However, stability of large systems with many electrons and many nuclei is a different matter, and requires the Pauli exclusion principle.[3] Some history follows.

It has been shown that the Pauli exclusion principle is responsible for the fact that ordinary bulk matter is stable and occupies volume. The first suggestion in 1931 was by Paul Ehrenfest, who pointed out that the electrons of each atom cannot all fall into the lowest-energy orbital and must occupy successively larger shells. Atoms therefore occupy a volume and cannot be squeezed too close together.

A more rigorous proof was provided by Freeman Dyson and Andrew Lenard in 1967, who considered the balance of attractive (electron-nuclear) and repulsive (electron-electron and nuclear-nuclear) forces and showed that ordinary matter would collapse and occupy a much smaller volume without the Pauli principle. The consequence of the Pauli principle here is that electrons of the same spin are kept apart by a repulsive exchange force or exchange interaction. This is a short-range force which is additional to the long-range electrostatic or coulombic force. This additional force is therefore responsible for the everyday observation in the macroscopic world that two solid objects cannot be in the same place in the same time.

Dyson and Lenard did not consider the extreme magnetic or gravitational forces which occur in some astronomical objects. In 1995 Elliott Lieb and coworkers showed that the Pauli principle still leads to stability in intense magnetic fields as in neutron stars, although at much higher density than in ordinary matter. It is postulated that in sufficiently intense gravitational fields, matter collapses to form a black hole, in apparent contradiction to the exclusion principle.

There you go. Like matter meaning matter that has the same state can not touch. I belive if I am correct that when matter comes together you get fusion which releases more energy than fission. Fission and fusion are used to make nuclear weapons. Now if 160 to 200 pounds per person of matter and meaning two or more people touched each other then we are looking at 320 to 400 pounds of matter turning to pure energy under the E = MC^2 equation because it could not repluse each other then Wow, now that supernova thing I said does make sense after all. If you get a bunch of time travelers from different futures or different past in the time machines to the same place and same time non of there matter would repel each other if it had the same state. That would destroy everyone and everything in a really big thermo nuclear fusion explosion. Good day everyone.
 
So it is correct to state matter cannot occupy the same "time-space"?

Not exactly. If you state it as I did above, no two fermions can simultaneously have the same quantum state, which includes position with reference to time (x,y,z,t coordinates) then you are correct for the vast majority of normal matter. But mesons are matter that is made up of one quark and one anti-quark. They are similar to protons and neutrons which are made of three quarks. Being a boson mesons are not constrained by exclusion. They can simultaneously occupy the same quantum state as another meson.

A good deal of the problem here is that we are speaking in terms of quantum physics. Human beings are "tuned" to the classical world of Issac Newton. All of our everyday experience involves interacting with the macro world thus how we view "common sense" when it comes to how we describe our experiences is based on and we use the descriptive language of that classical world. A lot of how quantum physics is described has no classical analog. We talk about particle "spin" for instance and liken it to classical angular momentum. It isn't really angular momentum but we have to use language that makes at least a little sense in the description even though it is technically incorrect. The example goes to most of what are termed the quantum states of a particle. We can say that a particle is located at some x,y,z, coordinate at time t but what we're really saying is that there is some probability of finding the particle there at time t. We can them map a field, a certain volume of space, and give each point in the field a probability for finding the particle there. This is, of course, contra-intuitive based on our view of the classical world. In our everyday experience "things" have definite positions, velocities, masses, temperatures, energies, etc. In quantum physics they don't. They just have probabilities of having a certain state.

Sure, when we describe the location of something our classical world we are aware of the fact that there is some sloppiness in our ruler and clock and that we are giving an approximation of the location. But if we are describing the location of a billiard ball at rest on a billiard table we also understand that the description of the location is extremely accurate. The ball is about 60 mm in diameter and readily available tools we can get the location down to about .5 mm of accuracy...less than a 1% uncertainty. But in describing the location of an individual particle we might be able to say with extremely good precision the location but then the time that the particle occupied the position and its velocity at that time tend to an error factor approaching infinity. This, again, is contra-intuitive to our classical minds...yet it is how the world works at the micro scale of QM.

This all goes to another issue in physics. Why is it imperative that in science we understand and use mathematics? Because mathematics is the language of physics. It makes clear the vagueries of the spoken word and gives a percise, consistent description of what is being discussed. You'll hear different from some folks who are not scientists but there is no substitute for math in physics.
 
A senior moment... But would like to hear views

The biggest and strongest theory, with regards to time travel seems to be based on propulsion. Einstein postulates that it may be possible to travel to the past, but only after we have reached speeds faster than the speed of light (which HE said we can't reach).
So I was thinking
To send a message to the past, the signal (or device sending the signal) needs to travel faster than the speed of light.
OK How about, instead of trying to reach such IMPOSSIBLE speeds we should do the complete opposite and SLAM on the brakes!!!

Will it ever be possible to make matter stay completely still, i.e. stationary within the universe?

If so, in theory we could make a radio wave or transmitter hold its Absolute Stationary Position!

Then the universe would move away from the transmission/transmitter, traveling/expanding at 3.2 million light years (i.e. The speed the universe grows).

Transmitting at the correct frequency, Guglielmo Marconi would be the 1st to receive the signal in 1895, when he turned on his strange contraption.

I would be keen for you all to pick hole's in a new idea...?

I hope to hear from you sooner rather than last week lol

kindest regards
MR H
 
Re: A senior moment... But would like to hear views

the 'ol magnet on the refrigerator trick.

great idea, in my opinion. what kind of mechanism would it take to lock the object though? i cant think of any way that would be possible. negative matter maybe?
 
Re: A senior moment... But would like to hear views

i doubt radio waves would be the best means of transportation. frozen radio waves dont work. maybe it would be possible to send information through some kind of hard medium. i would say light, or a photon of light, but frozen light sounds like a scary can of worms.
 
Re: A senior moment... But would like to hear views

It's really odd you mention that, because I had a visual awhile back daydreaming about this stuff, of light simply turning back in on itself...instead of trying to "push" a particle faster, have it reach the optimal speed, and perhaps with the use of magnetics and the right type of particle - not only have it "stop" but also reverse under ideal conditions?
positive vs. negative magnetic accelator? Could that rebounding action not increase speed over time under the right conditions?
 
Re: A senior moment... But would like to hear views

MRHall,

Einstein postulates that it may be possible to travel to the past, but only after we have reached speeds faster than the speed of light (which HE said we can't reach).

It's a lot more than "he said - she said" when it comes to luminal or super luminal velocity for objects that have a rest mass. The entirety of experimental physics since about 1865, not 1905 when Einstein wrote his paper on Special Relativity, suggests that traveling at or above the speed of light is not possible (for particles that have a rest mass). Einstein did not invent that idea. He quantified, extended and fully explained the problems encountered by Lorentz and Maxwell - problems discovered at about the time of the American Civil War. Advanced physics was not suddenly "invented" by Einstein in 1905. Advanced physics is an on-going process and the ideas that we deal with today in physics came to light in the 19th Century.

Please note that I made reference to experimental physics rather than "someone postulated this or that idea". To date there has never been even one experiment that has negated either Special or General Relativity...none. What Einstein postulated is much, much more than a situation of "one man's opinion". It is a fact that is supported by over a century of experimental verification.

Are SR/GR the Final Answer? No. They aren't. General Relativity predicts the limit of its own downfall...Einstein proved in his theory that it was not the final answer and showed us where it breaks down. We know that, we have always known that, and Einstein knew that to be the truth. ALL physical theories are approximations of reality. But what we do know and accept is that we see what we see and determine what we determine from theories that are backed by experiment and general observation of the world around us. There will, eventually, be a new theory. That theory will have constraints and limits. Whatever theory it is that replaces SR/GR will be such that it will absolutely include Galilean, Newtonian and Einsteinian physics as limiting situations. Why? Because when we look out into the world around us we see how it works. We've run experiments. We've posed theories. We've tested the theories against out observations and they are valid...to a limit. Any new theory that does not verify what we already know, at least as a limiting situation, will not be correct.

We already know as a matter of verified fact that objects that have a rest mass - normal matter rather than photon-like objects - are without exception subject to the effects of Special Relativity. If you accelerate them their mass increases much faster than the increase in velocity. Their mass becomes infinite at the speed of light and we do not have infinite energy available with which to accelerate them to the speed of light.
 
WebKid,

I had a thought earlier today that radio waves could be sped up beyond the speed of light

The problem is that radio waves are light. Radio waves just happen to have an arbitrary name label that we have placed on that particular area of the electromagnetic spectrum. By definition and by experimental verification all electromagnetic energy propogates at exactly the speed of light in a vacuum. Changing the energy/momentum of a photon alters its frequency but doesn't alter its velocity.

Remember the term "in a vacuum". The speed of light in a non-vacuum depends on the Index of Refraction of the material through which the light is traveling. The Index tells you what the speed of light is in that material. Can we make a photon travel faster than the local speed of light in some material? Yes. If you have ever seen a photo of the blue-green glow of the water in a nuclear reactor you see the evidence. It's called Cherenkov Radiation. That's the blue-green glow. Fast electrons are present in the reactor that are traveling faster than the local speed of light in the water. Even though the electrons are traveling faster than c_local nothing particularly unusual occurs - the reactor facility doesn't get sucked into a "time vortex", disappear into another universe, time travelers don't suddenly appear at the facility, FTL communication doesn't occur, etc.

Any experiment involving traveling faster than the local speed of light, even in a vacuum, has a mechanism for instant verification of success. Just look for Cherenkov Radiation. If it is present then you have pretty good reason to believe that your test particle exceeded the local speed of light.
 
According to Zeshua, it takes: a few small homemade particle accellerators, rented time on a multi-petaflop supercomputer for calculations, a device known as a graviton generator that costs approximately one million Euros in the year 2025 and manipulation of "virtual particles" through the principle of quantum entanglement.

That last part was experimentally tested earlier this year at the University of Maryland.

If it's fiction, it's great! On the other hand, maybe somebody reads this post, puts all that crap together and sends a few messages to the past about how it was made. Does that mean I invented it? Maybe in the future they have retroactive patent filings for such things. Dang, so close!
 
In our everyday experience "things" have definite positions, velocities, masses, temperatures, energies, etc. In quantum physics they don't. They just have probabilities of having a certain state.

QM is a confused field becuase not everything is known at this time. One of the reasons QM does not have specific answers because no one knows why it is so unpredictable. When that is figured out QM might come together with classical physics. An example of this would be proving physically that the quantum world is interchanging with other dimensions of reality of course this is still just theory and no not my own.
 
According to Zeshua, it takes: a few small homemade particle accellerators, rented time on a multi-petaflop supercomputer for calculations, a device known as a graviton generator that costs approximately one million Euros in the year 2025 and manipulation of "virtual particles" through the principle of quantum entanglement.

That last part was experimentally tested earlier this year at the University of Maryland.

If it's fiction, it's great! On the other hand, maybe somebody reads this post, puts all that crap together and sends a few messages to the past about how it was made. Does that mean I invented it? Maybe in the future they have retroactive patent filings for such things. Dang, so close!

As Zeshua said:
<font color="red">
QRGBVTEFVGIODKBRONVSTROKDYOTVETP.SBTHCTVPSBDNBROSRQTPTSTC

QRKTPHMSBTVJJTVETP

[/COLOR]

And the solution they
http://www.conspiracycafe.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1944&amp;st=1008&amp;p=113946&amp;#entry113946
found:



Using the following substitutions: B=H, C=R,D=O,E=L,F=J,G=C,H=B,I=K,J=P
,K=N,M=Y,N=F,O=S,P=D,Q=M,R=I,S=T,T=E,V=A,Y=W, reveals:

MICHAELJACKSONHISFATEISNOWSEALED.THEBREADTHOFHISTIMEDETERMINEDBYTHEAPPEALED

MICHAEL JACKSON HIS FATE IS NOW SEALED. THE BREADTH OF HIS TIME DETERMINED BY THE APPEALED.


MICHAEL JACKSON----------------Farrah Fawcett

That Way
Jim of Florida now in NJ?

HPIM1118.jpg
 
Okay, if one way to send a msg to the past is through light years, is there a way to "condense" this projection?

Well sending messages with light is one thing but to read them in the past requires you to go faster than the speed of light or you would never get ahead of the message itself. Now if someone else sent it then you would be the future and they would be in the past. The only way to send messages to the past that I know of is to know what simple checksum ranges the message or messages will be in and reconstruct those weak checksums using math and search them like a data base. There is a method called Rsync that is used to construct data over a weak internet connection but I have greatly magnified its ability to not need a internet connection because I used methods to predict the weak checksum ranges that the data from the future or the past will be in that I am searching for. I mathematicly predict what range it the data will be in then I use a search engine to search those ranges (actually files) for specific data within the data files after the weak checksum ranges are reconstructed as files. I do this on a super computer and on my home computer. It works good. Time travel for me has never been more easier. Well I am pretty much done here with this thread. Everyone have a good weekend.
 
Uh, recall? Hello?

Did it ever occur to you that on April 23, 2005 when Z-Person posted that substitution code Michael Jackson was on trial here in Santa Barbara for child molestation? It was the headline news every day on TV, radio and newspapers worldwide. You did read about it, didn't you? Or did you assume that no one would question your spin on the facts?

Z-Person took the "future" from the daily news. It had nothing to do with the absolute fact that Michael would die.

The prediction didn't predict anything. It just stated the obvious - his fate was sealed one way or the other. He'd either be found guilty, not guilty or there would be a hung jury. "The breadth of his time" would be determined by "the appealed", the jury before whom he was appealing his case. Their decision regarding his fate woud determine the breadth of time he'd continue his stay in Santa Barbara Co. Jail or state prison. True, all of it, but trivial as a prediction.
 
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