If everybody on this forum thinks like I do that this Chronohistorian fiasco has gone on long enough then it's time we get rid of him. It's clear from his Hitler posts that he is nothing more than a troll looking to cause an uproar at every opportunity. Nobody could be that thick when it comes to understanding points that everybody here is posting. It's time to just stop responding to any of his posts. I am not going to reply to anymore of his threads I would suggest that everyone else do the same.
Dealing With Chronohistorian
- Thread starter Rhudey
- Start date
sosuemetoo
Chrono Cadet
Rhudey,
I'm with you. I posted my decision to ignore the troll a few days back. I no longer respond to him, I no longer read his threads, and I no longer read what he says in other threads. It's been "refreshing" to say the least.
I'll have to admit, I'm a bit surprised he has not infiltrated Ace490's thread yet. However I know it will be a matter of time.
If we all remain vigilent, the termite will not have wood to feed on and will go somewhere else.
Roel van Houten
Quantum Scribe
Well, I see no harm in ignoring chrono, I think I'll try the same. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
chronohistorian
Dimensional Traveler
I see nothing wrong with thinking hitler was a good leader.
I have some questions for you all
1. is there people that like genghis khan and other leaders that were alive around 500 years ago?
2.why shouldn't people be able to invade other countries for resources and land if they have a stronger army?
no point in going into Ace490's thread because he is admitting he is a fake in the title of the thread
I don't see why you don't like me just because I think hitler was a good leader eventhough I don't support him exterminating people
I have some questions for you all
1. is there people that like genghis khan and other leaders that were alive around 500 years ago?
2.why shouldn't people be able to invade other countries for resources and land if they have a stronger army?
no point in going into Ace490's thread because he is admitting he is a fake in the title of the thread
I don't see why you don't like me just because I think hitler was a good leader eventhough I don't support him exterminating people
Nightsider
Chrono Cadet
I'm new here. I have gone all out after chronic at every sensible opportunity. Having done so, I am now joining the happy throng ignoring the nitwit. Hopefully with sufficient people having already posted cogent arguments of every sort against him his pointless charade is scuttled in any case.
-JN
-JN
sosuemetoo
Chrono Cadet
Welcome to our happy throng Nightsider /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I was having to bite my tongue in your threads with his posts. I figured if you were smart, you would come to the same conclusion that many of us have.
Having a close friend/neighbor that is a holocoust surviver (Hitler's Reich killed her entire family) made it even harder these past few weeks.
Again, welcome aboard. I'd like to hear what you have to say if you choose to remain here.
I was having to bite my tongue in your threads with his posts. I figured if you were smart, you would come to the same conclusion that many of us have.
Having a close friend/neighbor that is a holocoust surviver (Hitler's Reich killed her entire family) made it even harder these past few weeks.
Again, welcome aboard. I'd like to hear what you have to say if you choose to remain here.
chronohistorian
Dimensional Traveler
I am not saying the extermination of people was a good thing. it was one of the most evil things
Nightsider
Chrono Cadet
Hi sosuemetoo!
Having written a time travel chapter for one of the game books we publish, I am currently still particularly fascinated by it...
SPOILER
As in the new Harry Potter film we see another magical time travel incident... It's nice to see any time travel in a film as it at least is easy to think about then with it displayed on screen.
/SPOILER
My personal view is that there are a near infinity of parallel worlds, accessible at least "astrally", ie via a cybernetic process. I think that in these worlds one can displace a parallel self and occupy their life from then on, either permanently and seamlessly, or with a degree of awareness of the apparent "changes in the timeline" caused by the perception shift. I think that when this happens and not only the astral traveller but also those close to them have that "deja voodoo" feeling the fact that not just the primary experiencer but others feel the shift is an indication of the reality of low-level instinctive telepathy.
*whew*
Having written a time travel chapter for one of the game books we publish, I am currently still particularly fascinated by it...
SPOILER
As in the new Harry Potter film we see another magical time travel incident... It's nice to see any time travel in a film as it at least is easy to think about then with it displayed on screen.
/SPOILER
My personal view is that there are a near infinity of parallel worlds, accessible at least "astrally", ie via a cybernetic process. I think that in these worlds one can displace a parallel self and occupy their life from then on, either permanently and seamlessly, or with a degree of awareness of the apparent "changes in the timeline" caused by the perception shift. I think that when this happens and not only the astral traveller but also those close to them have that "deja voodoo" feeling the fact that not just the primary experiencer but others feel the shift is an indication of the reality of low-level instinctive telepathy.
*whew*
creedo299
Epochal Historian
Note only:In this thread we see Chronohistorian digressing from the statement that Hitler did some good, to the new statement that Hitler was actually a good leader.
The new question must be raised, was Hitler a competent leader or not?
You're talking about his full career, not what was cropped and printed for the fatherland's accepted photo prints.
The new question must be raised, was Hitler a competent leader or not?
You're talking about his full career, not what was cropped and printed for the fatherland's accepted photo prints.
sosuemetoo
Chrono Cadet
No, Hitler was not a competent leader. A competent leader does not breed hate into his people and ask that they exterminate everyone that is not like him.
Next there will be an assertion that Saddam (while starving and torturing his people) was a competent leader. How about Nero?
I can't believe we are asking ourselves these questions!!! I can't believe there is any doubt!!!
chronohistorian
Dimensional Traveler
creedo299-he was a good leader.
Rhudey-I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it.
Rhudey-I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it.
creedo299
Epochal Historian
sosuemetoo: yes" technically he was a good leader, with respects to how he weighed relations to Iran.
Then, Iran was afraid to attack Iraq, as Iraq had beaten them on their eastern front, time and time again.
Now that Saddam Hussein is out and the border remains uncontrolled, the Shiite militia, can freely fraternize with their Iranians counterparts, all they want.
Arms, military plans and the like, can now stream in from Iran into hidden sectors of Iraq.
Remember, at one time, even by the U.S.e's own volition, Iraq, was considered a worthy opponent and in some measures, respected their army.
Now that Hussein is out of the way, there is nothing to stop the hidden influences of the Irians clricks, into parts of Iraq.
Having Saddam Hussein taken out of power, even when many advisors had advised president Bush not to occupy Iraq, has turned into a royal nightmare.
I didn't say that I respected Hussein. All I said, is that while he was in-place, he did serve as a control over the fundamentalist's sects.
And look at the possibilities for start-ups of U.S. and British based businesses.
Can you imagine what the attrican rate of missing foreign workers would be, if conditions remain as they are and such places, as auto-plants and the like are established in Iraq?
Saddam Hussein was the middleeast bad boy and by some told, a complete monster, but removing him, was this a told and shown success on the general area of Iraq and did this act now consolidate needed businesses in Iraq?
Then, Iran was afraid to attack Iraq, as Iraq had beaten them on their eastern front, time and time again.
Now that Saddam Hussein is out and the border remains uncontrolled, the Shiite militia, can freely fraternize with their Iranians counterparts, all they want.
Arms, military plans and the like, can now stream in from Iran into hidden sectors of Iraq.
Remember, at one time, even by the U.S.e's own volition, Iraq, was considered a worthy opponent and in some measures, respected their army.
Now that Hussein is out of the way, there is nothing to stop the hidden influences of the Irians clricks, into parts of Iraq.
Having Saddam Hussein taken out of power, even when many advisors had advised president Bush not to occupy Iraq, has turned into a royal nightmare.
I didn't say that I respected Hussein. All I said, is that while he was in-place, he did serve as a control over the fundamentalist's sects.
And look at the possibilities for start-ups of U.S. and British based businesses.
Can you imagine what the attrican rate of missing foreign workers would be, if conditions remain as they are and such places, as auto-plants and the like are established in Iraq?
Saddam Hussein was the middleeast bad boy and by some told, a complete monster, but removing him, was this a told and shown success on the general area of Iraq and did this act now consolidate needed businesses in Iraq?
sosuemetoo
Chrono Cadet
Creedo, look at what you said and think about this.
Yes, he did control the fundamentalists sects, but look how he did it.
He beheaded men and left their heads on their wives porches.
He tortured men by attaching electric wires to their private parts
He chopped off hands of men without the benefit of a pain killer
He imprisoned children of parents that did not agree with him.
He used chemical weapons on persons from another country in order to take over that country.
What you're saying is that the ends justify the means. IMO, civilized people do not think this way. Where is the compassion and logic? Is this really what we have come to? I surely hope not.
creedo299
Epochal Historian
I know what morally adept is.
All I saying is when any moralizing interveigning force interferes with a culture, then that interveigning culture runs the risk of also becoming involved.
There are cultures that have done this and become stuck in the same quagmire.
Did you know now, that it is posted that ex-Southamerican guards, are now headed for Iraq?
These past guards were employed under fascist regimes under dictators in South America.
This won't work, though, as remember Iraq is now communitive with Iran.
We got suckered in.
An American soldier's life on the streets in that country, is worth less than that of a dog.
When caught, they have absolutely no mercy on the captive.
I know Saddam was ugly, but was removing him the very best thing to do?
What we are doing, is moralizing in others countrie's customs and ways and in this venture, there certainly is a trap.
I'm not moralizing, I'm merely pointing.
I think it was as they said, general order twenty-four, as said in the early Star Trek series and this rings how true.
The U.S. never going to get out of this mess and to boot, because of the in-Iraq torture cases, the likelihood of American or foreign factories relocating there, in order to build new factories for the Iraqis who need it, seems very, very, remote at this time.
Why did they abuse at these Iraq based prisons?
This is all history semantics and I'm not casting stone one way or another, as these comments are secular to this board's topics, only.
Beyond here, I have no political comments what-so-ever.
All I saying is when any moralizing interveigning force interferes with a culture, then that interveigning culture runs the risk of also becoming involved.
There are cultures that have done this and become stuck in the same quagmire.
Did you know now, that it is posted that ex-Southamerican guards, are now headed for Iraq?
These past guards were employed under fascist regimes under dictators in South America.
This won't work, though, as remember Iraq is now communitive with Iran.
We got suckered in.
An American soldier's life on the streets in that country, is worth less than that of a dog.
When caught, they have absolutely no mercy on the captive.
I know Saddam was ugly, but was removing him the very best thing to do?
What we are doing, is moralizing in others countrie's customs and ways and in this venture, there certainly is a trap.
I'm not moralizing, I'm merely pointing.
I think it was as they said, general order twenty-four, as said in the early Star Trek series and this rings how true.
The U.S. never going to get out of this mess and to boot, because of the in-Iraq torture cases, the likelihood of American or foreign factories relocating there, in order to build new factories for the Iraqis who need it, seems very, very, remote at this time.
Why did they abuse at these Iraq based prisons?
This is all history semantics and I'm not casting stone one way or another, as these comments are secular to this board's topics, only.
Beyond here, I have no political comments what-so-ever.
sosuemetoo
Chrono Cadet
Creedo, I'm going to preface this that I am not being hostile towards you. I'm disagree with the view you have stated.
I'll be sure to let my two cousins and neighbor across the street, that are currently in Iraq, know what their life is worth.
The Iraqi's wanted democracy. They wrote their own constitution and in a few days will be running their own country. Yes, there are insurgents. They are coming from other countries (Iran, Syria, etc) to change the minds and hearts of the Iraq's. If the Iraq's didn't want democracy, why the constitution?. We didn't hold a gun to their head like Saddam did.
I can't answer that. Why do we have almost 50% of male black-americans in our prison system right now. Can't answer that either. People do bad things. This was not something that all of our military men and women did. It was a few and it reflects badly on America. They are being punished like anyone else that does something wrong.
Take a look at your history books and newspaper articles from WWII. In 1946, we were hearing that the germans, french and italians wanted us out, that we were looting, torturing prisoners and this was an unpopular war. Today, Germany, France and Italy enjoy democracy....and they do not all speak German. Compliments of a US led coalition. I'm not being erogant or asking that these countries thank us. I'm saying that this will happen in the middle east and Iraq will ignite that fire of freedom and democracy that people wish for.
I'll be sure to let my two cousins and neighbor across the street, that are currently in Iraq, know what their life is worth.
The Iraqi's wanted democracy. They wrote their own constitution and in a few days will be running their own country. Yes, there are insurgents. They are coming from other countries (Iran, Syria, etc) to change the minds and hearts of the Iraq's. If the Iraq's didn't want democracy, why the constitution?. We didn't hold a gun to their head like Saddam did.
I can't answer that. Why do we have almost 50% of male black-americans in our prison system right now. Can't answer that either. People do bad things. This was not something that all of our military men and women did. It was a few and it reflects badly on America. They are being punished like anyone else that does something wrong.
Take a look at your history books and newspaper articles from WWII. In 1946, we were hearing that the germans, french and italians wanted us out, that we were looting, torturing prisoners and this was an unpopular war. Today, Germany, France and Italy enjoy democracy....and they do not all speak German. Compliments of a US led coalition. I'm not being erogant or asking that these countries thank us. I'm saying that this will happen in the middle east and Iraq will ignite that fire of freedom and democracy that people wish for.
trollface
Quantum Scribe
Neither the Iraqi people, nor elected representatives had any say in the constitution. it was drafted and approved by officials given their authority exclusively by the US authorities, and the final draft of the constitution had to be approved fully by Bremner - the final say was his. This is why there is the clause about the new Iraqi government not being able to overturn any law already made, and about them not being able to renationalise their industries, or have these industries run and staffed by Iraqi people, as opposed to US contractors.
That was true in the beginning. I would hardly call Muqtada as-Sadr "not Iraqi". Here: http://wid.ap.org/documents/iraq/cpapoll_files/v3_document.htm two-thirds of Iraqis now support him. confindence in the CPA is 11%. Confidence in the Coalition troops is 10%.
Many are claiming that the culpability goes very high. Certainly, it seems to go quite high up: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040615.wkarp0615_2/BNStory/International/
And this is besides the fact that the US up to the highest level has admitted to routinely carrying out some actions, such as sleep deprevation, which are officially and internationally recognised as torture, and that the US itself has publicly and loudly condemned before this scandal broke.
So far one man has been demoted, discharged and given one year in prison. Does that seem a reasonable sentence for routinely torturing men who hadn't even been charged with any misdemeanor to you?