Curiosity....

KerrTexas

Super Moderator
I have read many claims from supposed time travelers during my time here in TTI. I dont know if I have tunnel vision or not...but almost every claimant has predicted or foretold some tales of doom.

I am curious as to why there hasnt been any "time travelers" just plain interested in us. Our philosophers, our scientists, our basic way of life. Not warning us, but asking us questions about things in this time.

I would enjoy reading any philosophy that some great thinker of the future may have written, some part of the world that the "traveler" enjoyed in their time and would perhaps share his/her thoughts of that place where they find something special.

Has there been a claimant that has started their first post with...I am from the year 3033 and I have some questions for YOU ? instead of putting out the standard line of..."ask me anything".

And has any claimant, besides chronohistorian, even bothered to interact in the time travel discussion forum...to say..hey..you're on the right track...or good idea...or no, think of this principle in this way...

Instead, they all remain within the basement here, forever locked in battle of validation and spreading tales of our certain demise.

Just was curious.
 
They don't have to go on a time travel board to learn about our time.
They can go on any internet site and ask questions of people saying they
are from another country or something.

There were a few proclaimed TT who asked us questions.
John asked the people a bunch of questions once but very few responded to him.
Bruce asked questions ...but only I answered them.

Hows come people didn't answer the questions they DID ask?
 
Hows come people didn't answer the questions they DID ask?
Simple. Because once they make their claim to be a time traveler, given the experiences some here have already been through, they immediately ignite the need for proof of that claim.

The problem is the claim. The need to make that claim even before they begin asking questions shows a need for attention. "Look at me". You clearly stated, Pamela, what any real time traveler (as if) could do if they really wanted questions answered. Rather than make a claim that immediately wants to be validated, they could simply say they are from another culture (another PLACE, rather than another TIME). At that point, some folks may be interested in answering their questions, and others may just ignore them.

And I might add that ALL of this TT claim and questioning baloney that we go through here totally ignores something that several of us have pointed out... that our current science has told us and verified that Space and Time are not individual, discrete spaces. Rather, SpaceTime is an integrated, contiguous "fabric". And thus saying you are from "another Time" is really interchangeable with saying you are from "another Space".

RMT
 
The comment about asking about our mores, attitudes, expectations and such is a good point. A real time traveler who was a sociologist or philosopher might very well use the internet for research on what goes on in the minds of the people of this day and age.
 
"Simple. Because once they make their claim to be a time traveler, given the experiences some here have already been through, they immediately ignite the need for proof of that claim.

The problem is the claim. The need to make that claim even before they begin asking questions shows a need for attention. "Look at me". You clearly stated, Pamela, what any real time traveler (as if) could do if they really wanted questions answered. Rather than make a claim that immediately wants to be validated, they could simply say they are from another culture (another PLACE, rather than another TIME). At that point, some folks may be interested in answering their questions, and others may just ignore them.

And I might add that ALL of this TT claim and questioning baloney that we go through here totally ignores something that several of us have pointed out... that our current science has told us and verified that Space and Time are not individual, discrete spaces. Rather, SpaceTime is an integrated, contiguous "fabric". And thus saying you are from "another Time" is really interchangeable with saying you are from "another Space".

RMT "

<font color="blue">Well then.. I guess we should definitely not question the current science of the day heh? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
But Rainman.. are you saying it would be better for a time traveler to come on THIS web site and NOT mention time travel and just say "Hi, I am from another place and have some questions?"

If he was on this web site he would only be asking questions on what you felt about time travel.
If he asked anything else here without claiming to be a time traveler would he not be out of topic?

Why do they have to show absolute proof right away? Why do you demand this before you talk with them? When you know it is virtually impossible to prove you are a time traveler over the internet. Since all pictures and videos are instruments of doubts. Or is it that you are just hoping they provide one that is obviously faked? From what you are saying a real time traveler would have very little hope of communication on this web site. Because you are saying you will not communicate unless he shows absolute proof first.

Here is one thing you have totally missed. Once proof is "somehow" totally proven thats all you would have. You would not have a chance to ask questions after that because he would have to ..how do you say it? "high tail it out of here."

To tell you the truth.. after considering all that I truly do not know why they would even bother to post here at all. I think that is kind of selfish. It would all be just for you and he would gain nothing from it. After all he doesn't have to prove to himself he is a time traveler.
I think one would have to retain the perfect balance like "John"did. I think that just would be too much trouble for most of them just to talk with you. Just my honest opinion.

Ok let us think about this then. If you were a real time traveler..How could communication work out?
Post just enough pictures to be interesting enough to talk to. Post the real thing.. nothing fake. Do not post anything that would show absolute proof so you could participate in questions and answers. The more balance you keep the longer you can participate in Q&amp;A.
Keep a very careful balance and remember that your worldline may be different than ours so don't make any detailed predictions. If you do make detailed predictions remind the people things are not always going to turn out exactly the same and why. keep in mind if you go too far authorities may believe you are real or even worse some type of terrorist. Do not answer any questions falsely and be honest about what you know or do not know.

How is that? It sounds an awful lot like what John attempted. Makes me wonder how he knew to do all of that so well.

If I was a time traveler I would just say "Pfft.. forget it!" lol /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Have a great weekend everyone![/COLOR]
 
Pamela,
Well then.. I guess we should definitely not question the current science of the day heh?
Questioning current science is fine, but until you can falsify current science you cannot make a valid claim that current science is "wrong". This is a point that myself and Darby have consistently made on this site.
But Rainman.. are you saying it would be better for a time traveler to come on THIS web site and NOT mention time travel and just say "Hi, I am from another place and have some questions?"
No, that is not what I am saying. I believe I made it clear that it is the "claim" to being a time traveler that is problematic. There is no real point to the claim that adds to whatever a potential time traveler's "mission" may be. The claim serves nothing more than an attention-getter. It is similar to an American going to, let's say, Australia and saying "I am from America, and I have a message for you and wish to learn from you and answer your questions." The "I am from America" part serves no purpose other than to call attention to something that makes no difference to the "mission".
If he was on this web site he would only be asking questions on what you felt about time travel.
That is an assumption that you have not validated.
If he asked anything else here without claiming to be a time traveler would he not be out of topic?
By this logic, would you not be saying that all of the rest of us, non-time travelers, are all off-topic? I think this premise is a bit silly.
Why do they have to show absolute proof right away?
Because they have made an extraordinary claim. Again, I point out that it is the CLAIM that causes problems. As Carl Sagan is often quoted as saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
When you know it is virtually impossible to prove you are a time traveler over the internet.
Not only do I not "know" this, but I challenge this as truth. Any one of us who has legitimately challenged so-called time traveler's claims have offered-up PLENTY of various means for them to legitimize themselves. But each time these means are met with weak answers, reasons why they cannot comply, or outright ignoring of our requests.
From what you are saying a real time traveler would have very little hope of communication on this web site. Because you are saying you will not communicate unless he shows absolute proof first.
Then why do they make the claim, if it is not for attention as I surmise?
Here is one thing you have totally missed. Once proof is "somehow" totally proven thats all you would have. You would not have a chance to ask questions after that because he would have to ..how do you say it? "high tail it out of here."
Again, this is an assumption of yours that I do not think you have fully validated. You are relying on what "John" explained to you as truth (and you do this often, such as with respect to how you assume "worldlines" work).
To tell you the truth.. after considering all that I truly do not know why they would even bother to post here at all. I think that is kind of selfish. It would all be just for you and he would gain nothing from it. After all he doesn't have to prove to himself he is a time traveler.
Again, this is all true but should this not again lead back to the question of "why make the claim?" WHAT DOES THE CLAIM TO BE A TIME TRAVELER SERVE???? Every single hoaxer we have seen (including Titor) has been emphatic that they do not care if we believe them. If this is true, and they are not just seeking attention, then WHY MAKE THE CLAIM? This is the question that is never sufficiently answered.
Ok let us think about this then. If you were a real time traveler..How could communication work out?
Post just enough pictures to be interesting enough to talk to. Post the real thing.. nothing fake. Do not post anything that would show absolute proof so you could participate in questions and answers. The more balance you keep the longer you can participate in Q&amp;A.
Keep a very careful balance and remember that your worldline may be different than ours so don't make any detailed predictions. If you do make detailed predictions remind the people things are not always going to turn out exactly the same and why. keep in mind if you go too far authorities may believe you are real or even worse some type of terrorist. Do not answer any questions falsely and be honest about what you know or do not know.

How is that? It sounds an awful lot like what John attempted.
Once again we see that you tend to model the INTENTION of any time traveler and their claim after your experience with "John". I have yet to see you really critically question whether "John" was real... but yes, I know... you will tell us all that you have all the proof you need... proof that no one else is privvy to. That is precisely why I refer to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor.
Makes me wonder how he knew to do all of that so well.
And I guess the potential answer of "it was a well-thought-out hoax which is not falsifiable" doesn't come to mind?

And I hope you do not again think I am being rude. Just as you, these are my honest opinions that I share.
RMT
 
"but yes, I know... you will tell us all that you have all the proof you need... proof that no one else is privvy to. That is precisely why I refer to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor."-Rainman

<font color="blue"> That is an assumption that you have not validated.[/COLOR]

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Pamela,
"but yes, I know... you will tell us all that you have all the proof you need... proof that no one else is privvy to. That is precisely why I refer to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor."-Rainman

That is an assumption that you have not validated.
Very good. That shows you are catching on to some of these points. Now can you also identify why I cannot validate my assumption? It is related to this discussion, you know...

It is because your claim to proof of Titor's claim is also not a falsifiable claim.
RMT
 
"Now can you also identify why I cannot validate my assumption? "-Rainman

<font color="blue"> Yes. You cannot validate your assumption of me because your assumption is based
on false information created in your own mind.
I know this to be absolutely true...because I am myself. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif [/COLOR]




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Yes. You cannot validate your assumption of me because your assumption is based
on false information created in your own mind.
I know this to be absolutely true...because I am myself.
So I take it that since this was the only comment of mine that you addressed, then you pretty much agree with all my other assessments of your analysis?

I think I have a new rhyme for TT claimants, along the lines of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." But it goes like this:

"If you can't stand the rain(man), don't make the claim, man!"
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RMT
 
"So I take it that since this was the only comment of mine that you addressed, then you pretty much agree with all my other assessments of your analysis?"-Rainman


<font color="blue"> Perhaps you just assume too much.
I honestly do not have the time or desire to address all of your issues.
So I summed it up in one sentence.
I respect your views and they are noted.[/COLOR]


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Pamela,

Yes. You cannot validate your assumption of me because your assumption is based on false information created in your own mind. I know this to be absolutely true...because I am myself.

I agree with Ray that you're catching on - but you're response was not the truth of the matter. Your response was to Ray's statement:

but yes, I know... you will tell us all that you have all the proof you need... proof that no one else is privvy to. That is precisely why I refer to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor."-

Ray was absolutely "100 percent" correct because he was almost quoting you from many of your previous posts. Here's just one example where he was virtually quoting you:

I received the 100 percent proof I needed .
Pamela
Member


Registered: April 27, 2001
Posts: 2225
Loc: U.S.A Ohio
(24.209.63.210) As you know I have been in contact with the lawyer and the people at the John Titor Foundation.
They have agreed to let me post the short audio file which I will be sending to Olav shortly and Rick to see if they can put it somewhere here.

I have also received 100 percent undeniable proof that the John Titor Foundation is not just some group of unknown people trying to make money off of John's work.
Something was communicated that only me , John and the family knew. It was specific. Very specific and undeniable.

I feel kind of relieved actually.

http://communities.anomalies.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/22909/page/0/fpart/1

The two bold areas are specific references to Ray's assertion that you have "all the proof that you need" and that that "no one else is privvy to". Ray's statement ws in no way an assumption. It was an assertion of fact as provided by you.

There is an assumtion in the matter, however. The assumption made by you was that no one but you, John and John's Family are privvy to the information.

You have no way to validate that assumption because you have no way to know with whom Boomer may have shared the information and, subsequently, with whom those people may have also shared it. The other assumption that you've made is that there is a "John Titor" family with whom he shared any information. There's no way for you to have validated that assumption.

And just to make sure that we are clear on the matter, here's some more from that thread:

Re: I received the 100 percent proof I needed .
thestarkfist
Member


Registered: January 31, 2004
Posts: 156
Loc: philadelphia
(68.81.100.119) pamela

you sound like a true believer. is there any doubt in your mind as to the authenticity of mr. titor's fantastic claims?
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the stark fist

that's longer than anyone's ever been gone before!


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#22720 - February 06, 2004 16:57 Re: I received the 100 percent proof I needed .
Pamela
Member


Registered: April 27, 2001
Posts: 2225
Loc: U.S.A Ohio
(24.209.63.210) I was talking about the John Titor Foundation being connected to John.

When you have 100 percent proof you no longer have to believe...you know. There is a difference
between believing and knowing.
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I don't think you really read these threads Darby.
Below Rainman is saying he is assuming I have all the proof I need of John being real or not.


"Once again we see that you tend to model the INTENTION of any time traveler and their claim after your experience with "John". I have yet to see you really critically question whether "John" was real... but yes, I know... you will tell us all that you have all the proof you need ... proof that no one else is privvy to. That is precisely why I refer to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor."

This guy is assuming the same thing as to which I correct him:
you sound like a true believer. is there any doubt in your mind as to the authenticity of mr. titor's fantastic claims?

<font color="blue">I was talking about (proof)the John Titor Foundation being connected to John.
NOT PROOF THAT JOHN WAS REAL OR NOT.
You are also quoting something posted in 2004. In one case the person asks the question in another
the person has falsely assumed information they cannot validate. [/COLOR]

"but you're response was not the truth of the matter."

<font color="blue"> Yes, it was. [/COLOR]


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Pamela,

You missed the point entirely. I included the follow on posts from the Anomalies thread "I Have 100 Percent Proof..." in my original post because I was aware that you were stating that the proof went to the assertion that you had proof that "Boomer" was somehow connected to or had contact with the JTF/Haber. I made that disclosure very clear in my post so that we wouldn't end up quibbling about what the proof was and its intention.

But Ray's point went to why he refer(s) to you as the "information validator" of Group Titor.

That's not an assumption on his part, its a fact - as stated by you in the quoted post (as only one example - other examples would include "The Secret Song"). You consider yourself as the sole information validator of the claim.

You weren't being totally honest in your reply based on your previous posts on the subject at hand.
 
<font color="purple"> I have been honest about everything I have posted about John.

I am not a part of this "group titor" as you call it.
You cannot validate that and I know that for a fact because I
know it is not true. You do not even know there is a group involved nor
can you validate that as a fact. So why do you speak it at all?
Just because you believe it is too much for only one person to do
does not make it a fact... only an opinion. Your opinion.
Nothing there you can validate.

If you can validate it then perhaps you are holding facts secret that no one
else knows and I could accuse you of basically the same thing."group titor validator."

I have been accused of being part of "group titor"so many times but how can you
or anyone else accuse me of this without validation? where is your absolute proof at?
These are your own rules for speaking on here...and you do not even follow them.
What makes you think I have to validate anything I say to you or anyone else?
Why do you hold such rules above my head? You are both simply posters on here as I am.
I find it no where stated in the rules of the board.

However, if you want to follow your own rules then stop accusing me of things I am not unless you have complete validation that it is true. [/COLOR]

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"Instead, they all remain within the basement here, forever locked in battle of validation..."-OLL


<font color="blue"> That's because you put them there and will allow them to speak of nothing else. [/COLOR]



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I have been accused of being part of "group titor"so many times but how can you
or anyone else accuse me of this without validation?

Hi Pam,

Your post touched me. I know how you must be feeling. If it means anything to you, I believe your not part of "Group Titor"!

But gee wiz, I wonder who is
?

TTA
 
Pamela,

I am not a part of this "group titor" as you call it.
You cannot validate that and I know that for a fact because I
know it is not true.

You're responding to a question or statement that was neither asked nor made.

There's no where in my post (nor can I find it in Ray's post that we're refering to) where it was suggested that you are a part of Group Titor.

He didn't say that he considers you the validator for Group Titor. He said that he considers you to be the validator of Group Titor, i.e. that you consider yourself to be the sole arbitrator if and when the time comes to determine whether a claim about the story is true based on information that you claim to be known only to yourself and Group Titor. In short, Group Titor didn't nominate you to the position of validator, you took the position voluntarily independent of Group Titor.

Had he said that he considers you the validator for Group Titor one could then infer that he was suggesting that you are a part of the group in some form, i.e. you were speaking for the group as a member of the group. But that's not what he said.

Once again, he was stating the reason why he refers to you as the "validator". His point is well taken based on the totality of your posts - only one of which I specifically alluded to (and quoted).

Only a few people truly believe that you are a part of the group. I'm not one of them. My belief is that you are as much an outsider as anyone else and, like everyone else, you only know what Group Titor intended for you to know.
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Ray made another spot on point relative to TT story validation in general. He said that you refer to "John's" statements as validating other time traveler's claims and indicated that that is a tautology.

He is absolutely correct in this position. Titor's claim itself is in doubt and lacks any real validation. Physicists have weighed in on the subject of his claim to a greater extent than to expres simple doubt. Therefore it is an illogical self defining "truth" to use his statements, which are in question, to validate yet another would-be time traveler's claim.

Certainly you don't want to put me (or anyone else) through the drill of reseaching your posts to certify that it true that you frequently refer to Titor's statements about time travel and apply them to other TT claims as some offer of validation, do you? We can agree that you have done this many times, can't we?
 
For what it is worth, my own unfounded,off-the-wall, intuition is that one should look in the direction of Joe McMoneagle as the primal Titor. Joe has a motivation: he feels strongly that Americans are letting their system of government slip away though lack of attention.I think CigSmokinMan quoted him recently in a post.

Joe was the first remote viewer hired by the government, and he was given the number 001 (or 01, I forget). Many agree that he is, or was, the most accurate. He might have seen something in our future he didn't like. And, remote viewing the future is time travel without a machine and a body(?).

Nonetheless, a psychic or remote viewer is looking at a 'past' future [the last time] because our future hasn't happened yet, although it is likely to follow the same path. PB
 
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