Consider This: Life Creates Life. Our Destiny?

RainmanTime

RainmanTime

Super Moderator
I have often spoken of the fractal, non-linear embedding that is characteristic of our universe all around us, and how it follows closed loops. Meanwhile, advanced physics reasearchers are speaking of discovering how to travel on "closed timelike loops".

Now I ask you to consider this: If there IS a Creator that fashioned us as lifeforms, and if the universe IS characterized by fractal, embedded, non-linear, closed loops... then would it not stand to reason that the penultimate achievement towards which we are headed is to also be able to CREATE LIFE?

And can anyone deny that our massive accumulation of information (esp. the sequencing of the human genome) is leading in this direction?

RMT
 
Rainman,

interesting topic, but you are forgetting one small (but major) detail.

We can clone life, duplicate life, sequence entire genomes, but we cannot create it. No experiment I have ever heard of has been able to take lets say your Amino Acids and Proteins and mix them in a blender or whatever, and Create even a Single Celled organism such as an amoeba.

We can create virtual life, A.I. programs that don't really truly think but Pretend very well.

so with our fast knowledge and technology we can't make an amoeba. And this, is also why I believe in a Creator.

I've heard the Oh it was Lightning or Fire or it took millions of years just laying around for the dna sequences to form together just right, I just don't buy it.

If you have some info on this I am not aware of please Please feel free to share, this is a topic of great interest for me.
 
Hi Ren,

We can clone life, duplicate life, sequence entire genomes, but we cannot create it.
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I agree...as far as today's knowledge & capability goes (and who knows what goes on behind the doors of black programs!). However, I do believe that this is sort of a "manifest destiny" for our species. We just haven't learned enough lessons, ourselves, to be responsible enough to achieve this level just yet.

And this, is also why I believe in a Creator.
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Any thoughts on what you might believe is our Creator's ultimate wish for our achievement? Personally, I think our Creator knows WAY more about closed-loop phenomenon than we do, and I think that Creator's ultimate plan for us is to allow us to close the loop that S/He created in us.

If you have some info on this I am not aware of please Please feel free to share, this is a topic of great interest for me.
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The only info I have is that scientists are now finding that DNA is a helluva lot more complex than we once thought. Those scientists who once identified a large amount of DNA material as "junk" just because they could see no purpose/function in it will soon be finding out they were ignoring something important. It is my belief that we will soon see scientific discovery information that confirms that our DNA actually is multi-dimensional, and there are aspects of it that we do not sense directly, but that link us to many other energetic life forms.

A hot, steaming bowl of Symbiotic Soup anyone?

RMT
 
DNA is very complex indeed. In fact I just read there was a specific chunk of DNA that occurs in exact reverse in some people, something like 1-3 percent of the population, but that this inverted DNA strand also related to the bearing of more offspring, meaning it is almost a genetic advantage.

DNA is really, truly, if you want to think about it, a supercomputer where the machine and the code are all combined. In fact its possible to think of DNA as Binary in nature, Adenine, Guanine, Thymine, Cytosene (sp on those sorry) combine in specific pairs, always.

What is even more amazing to think about, your body has some 1 trillion cells that contain your genetic code, your DNA. Your body has some 90 trillion cells that don't, almost all of them bacteria, pounds of them in your gut alone, 500 types of bacteria according to one study I read recently. so we have to have All these interactions we can hardly even comprehend, just to keep our bodies alive, its truly amazing.

here is a link for you so you won't think I'm just making this up.

http://www.newstarget.com/z002677.html


Any thoughts on what you might believe is our Creator's ultimate wish for our achievement? Personally, I think our Creator knows WAY more about closed-loop phenomenon than we do, and I think that Creator's ultimate plan for us is to allow us to close the loop that S/He created in us.
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I believe the Creator gave us life, and consciousness, a Soul if you will. The struggle of life, the search for self, for God, the rights and wrongs we do to other people, basically, our Karma, is what we are supposed to be in it for. I have no proof of what I am about to say, but I think the better of a person you are, the more good Karma you have, the closer you can be to God when you die. Although nobody could ever hope to understand or comprehend their purpose or reason or the Universe. We are barely scratching the surface and we still don't understand hardly anything.

I think the real question we should ask ourselves is, why. But its not important to find the answer, this is the fallacy. "The Answer is not the question, to Question IS the Answer." Its the search that we go through, its Asking the question that is important.

So asking where life came from, what God is, what is the Universe, what is Time, etc etc. Thats important. The actual answers to those, we may never comprehend (or maybe we will).
 
I think the term creator is wrong.

Its singular, The term the creation would be better, as it disgards numerical value for something that lives behond material. I know its only a technicality, but i think people will relate easier to the latter term.

Rainman is correct about us becoming creators. Before becoming an intergrated creational force to create all that exists and doesn't. Also to create the next set of creational force, to learn from.

We must first learn, adapt and perfect - inititally - creation in the material realm we currently reside in. Creating matter from existing matter. We need to do this before we can hope to reach the point were we create another creation from ourselves.

DNA/genetic manipulation is creating matter from existing matter.

The proccess over time will be perfected, as it should be. We have to do this in order to perfect this aspect of the creational proccess.

anyone who opposes genetic manipulation, is ignorant. Unfortunately the people that tend to oppose it go under the guise of spiritual enlighteners. Which is a psuedo term for ignorance, in their hands.

Rainman is also right about DNA being multi-dimensonal. What dimensions of existance are we linked to without even knowing it?!

can DNA also change its structure and multi-dimensoinal links within a life time. I.e. It can do this any time the user (us) wants or learns something new to stimulate it.

Kind regards,
Olly
 
Rainman' I think I see your problem and it does seem that you are struggling with this.

There are fractionates as it pertains to understanding here.

One, I'm sure that there is a creator, however the way people beings are created, is part of a consortium.

So your quest to find a central god, is elusive, to you own mind's eye.
 
Hi Olly,

Its singular, The term the creation would be better, as it disgards numerical value for something that lives behond material. I know its only a technicality, but i think people will relate easier to the latter term.
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You are absolutely right! Creation is a better word, and not only because "Creator" denotes number. Another good reason is because Creation is a verb. God is not a noun, since God is the eternal force of Creation.

We must first learn, adapt and perfect - inititally - creation in the material realm we currently reside in. Creating matter from existing matter. We need to do this before we can hope to reach the point were we create another creation from ourselves.
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Also very well said. Our technological evolution does, indeed, serve a purpose in helping us become more effective and efficient creators. By learning to create a higher level of complexity with a lower level of energy, we learn more about Creation.

anyone who opposes genetic manipulation, is ignorant. Unfortunately the people that tend to oppose it go under the guise of spiritual enlighteners.
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Agreed. Those who follow the "old religions" think it amoral. However, what they forget to consider is that our Creator (Creation) gave us the ability to create. There is nothing amoral about using the talents we were given to the greatest extent possible.

can DNA also change its structure and multi-dimensoinal links within a life time. I.e. It can do this any time the user (us) wants or learns something new to stimulate it.
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We live in a time where our DNA is doing exactly this in a great many people. It is preparing us for our next quantum evolutionary jump.

RMT
 
Rainman' I think I see your problem and it does seem that you are struggling with this.
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Creedo, dude, what you need is a big slice of humble pie! I am afraid I have to agree with Ren here, in that you constantly try to position yourself as more advanced and more knowledgeable than others. Meanwhile you use words and sentences that often have little meaning, even in very technical areas.

Please recall a long time back I have already proven that you do NOT know as much about aerospace technology as you think you do, and certainly not as much as someone with a degree in it who also teaches it!


How about a dose of your own medicine?

Creedo' I think I see your problem, and it stems from your being an unbalanced individual who thinks he is more advanced than others, and can never admit to his own ignorance...in ANY subject.

You've still got a lot of growing up to do, sonny boy.

RMT
 
Seeing as we are individuated pieces of god, I wonder if they would take their protest sign's and camp outside of gods door, If word got out god was playing around with DNA and planning a new race for a new world somewhere in the universe.

In their universe (religion) they get up one morning, go to work, come home, eat dinner, put the dog out, trip over and land in heaven for the rest of eternity
learning nothing inbetween but how to place evolutionary rules and restrictions on themselves.

Little do they know that that place in 'heaven' is just another ticket into a larger (more brilliant) university of eternal evolution. therefore, to strive for personal evolution on all levels, is to strive for heaven.

Not going to church once a week to listen to a really over weight priest talk about the 7 deadly sins. Theres irony for you. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We live in a time where our DNA is doing exactly this in a great many people. It is preparing us for our next quantum evolutionary jump.
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yes, totally.
 
Rainman' I think I see your problem and it does seem that you are struggling with this.




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RMT said>Creedo, dude, what you need is a big slice of humble pie! I am afraid I have to agree with Ren here, in that you constantly try to position yourself as more advanced and more knowledgeable than others. Meanwhile you use words and sentences that often have little meaning, even in very technical areas.

Please recall a long time back I have already proven that you do NOT know as much about aerospace technology as you think you do, and certainly not as much as someone with a degree in it who also teaches it!

How about a dose of your own medicine?

Creedo' I think I see your problem, and it stems from your being an unbalanced individual who thinks he is more advanced than others, and can never admit to his own ignorance...in ANY subject.

You've still got a lot of growing up to do, sonny boy.

*Creedo points out; No actually, by your return say and your wandering away from the subject matter, you have proven without a doubt, that you have a swing, or a bipolar personality.

Ego had nothing to do with this, nor you, or me.

What is at issue as you had said in your original start of this thread, is the question is there a creator and is there destiny associated with this concept.

I simply said, without any reference to anything having to do with aerospace what-so-ever, however theology, as printed, like in FATE magazine has said, there are probably many differing stiles of gods.

However the second fractionate would be, as I had said, the process of creation, which in the technical sence, might differ from how these gods might react to the entire product of creation?

Your retork was abusive, hurtful and shows that you do have regretful mood swings, which is more than an ample indication that you should see a therapist?

Ren is personally a monster and I would not trust him with anything, nor even give him the time of day, from this point on.

I had thought that we had reached some kind of applicative detent? However, it seems that you have not only turned on me, but have displayed a bipolar personality disorder as well.

In short, I think you need therapy, bud!?

I'm not being smart, but I really think that you do.

I'll keep out of your threads.

It was a very tragic mistake, to ever think that you were not only a normal person, even a pleasant one, as well.

I guess this goes to show you, how wrong a person can be?
 
RenUnconscious,

-Actually there are over 100 teams of scientists around the world working to create a newlife form.
You can read about it in the next issue of popular science (Feb '05).
 
Do you ALWAYS think you are right, and can clearly see everyone else's problems Creedo?

I might also add: You use an excessive number of prepositional phrases. Sometimes 3 or 4 of them in one sentence. This has been shown to cause problems in comprehension for the reader, and is considered poor writing style. Guess that means you are not quite as advanced as you like to think, huh?

I'll keep out of your threads.
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You made that promise before, but I guess this shows you are not a man of your word.

Honestly, Creedo, I've said this before: I don't have a problem with most of the stuff you post. However, whenever you position yourself as more advanced than others, when it is clear that you are not, I am going to call you on it. I have in the past, and I will in the future. This is not a function of time, but is eternal.
It stretches all the way back to the days of Siegmund, remember?

RMT
 
Ray one of the things Sigmund would have never dreamed of, is me catching and defining your personality disorder.

I did this and caught it in spades.

Your sick Ray, get some help.
 
p.s, the root of your problem is not me, but lies closer to you.

You know what this is, when you see your shrink, you tell him what I told you?
 
Ive got a 3 year old son.....i think the creating life thing must have been included in the original design specs..... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Wolfman,

I doubt they are "creating" a new life form. More than likely they are manipulating current DNA, taking existing cells, and in essence engineering life.

the point I am trying to make is, we do not have the technology to Create life, only duplicate it, engineer it, mess with it. because, Honestly, how do you make a cell? lets just say we are talking about an amoeba, its pretty simple. first you have to somehow create the DNA, hundreds of billions of amino acids in a precise order. Then you have to have a cell to put it in. I'm NOT talking about taking an existing cell and ripping the DNA out of it. I'm talking about Creating a cell from scratch. Lets see you would have to be able to manipulate a couple hundred million atoms precisely. We just don't have the technology to Create life.

IE. you put the 100 teams of scientists in their labs without any existing life or existing DNA, only the technology they currently have. They will have nothing at the end of the day.
 
the point I am trying to make is, we do not have the technology to Create life, only duplicate it, engineer it, mess with it. because, Honestly, how do you make a cell?
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Exactly, but the real point is, before we can hope to make matter itself, we need to perfect using or manipulating existing matter in all aplications.

Before you learn to make a cell, or rather, DNA itself. You need to perfect manipulating it in all of its applications. Otherwise, how will you know - how to make one? If you don't understand what can be done with it once its created.

kind regards,
Olly
 
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