Before the Big Bang

If we are organic beings subjected to laws of governance of this 'universe', and we assume the 'big bang' was the origination, then time in that context should only be applicable to 'us', for if possibility of creation under these circumstances hold true, then wouldn't one think it would hold true for a place that has similar governances in theory?
I'm taking it 'time' is being used for it's reference to measurement? Then to sum up the above, would we not be assuming 'the big bang' as the direct alpha of this measurement?
So if in prior to the 'beginning' of a scale, we would then even if similar conditions were found - 'similar' would indicate even then a new terminology be indicated?, for the proposed unexplored measurement? (not proposed by me, proposed in the hypothetical sense used in the above posts which I'm speculating on).
After all in this context, 'similar' is still a deviation from something used as a main reference.
Could all be fictional, of that I'm aware, but does this make sense using a 'logic train' of deduction?
 
If time and space are truly infinite, then our existence from start to finish could never be observed by an outsider, if the big bang was the START of ALL time then time will some day end with no trace of any of our existence to any outsider, this would make time and space irrelevant to its own existence.
 
Before the big bang: big foreplay.
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So you must continue with the discussion of Time Travel...in this timeline!!!

nice pic you post in the Other Timeline LOL :D

Post Again here! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
If time and space are truly infinite, then our existence from start to finish could never be observed by an outsider, if the big bang was the START of ALL time then time will some day end with no trace of any of our existence to any outsider, this would make time and space irrelevant to its own existence.
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If, as is believed, the sum total of all the positive and negative energy in the universe is zero........then we're basically the physical manifestation of a mathematical quirk, and on the grand scale of things the sum is still zero and technically we don't exist !

The universe is basically a neat little trick for creating something out of nothing.
 
Then Rainmantime + Rainman2 = 0

LOLOL!!!
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You are not going to believe me but this was the funniest thing. I was thru here earlier and someone with the user name of Rainmain2 had posted after Recall and had a avaitor of Bush with a long beard wearing a turbin. I guess the mod did not appreciate that because it appears the post has been deleted. I just thought I would share that with everyone since I saw the Rainmantime + Rainman2 = 0. It was pretty funny.
 
You are not going to believe me but this was the funniest thing. I was thru here earlier and someone with the user name of Rainmain2 had posted after Recall and had a avaitor of Bush with a long beard wearing a turbin. I guess the mod did not appreciate that because it appears the post has been deleted. I just thought I would share that with everyone since I saw the Rainmantime + Rainman2 = 0. It was pretty funny.
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I believe !!! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
looks here...
 
If time and space are truly infinite, then our existence from start to finish could never be observed by an outsider, if the big bang was the START of ALL time then time will some day end with no trace of any of our existence to any outsider, this would make time and space irrelevant to its own existence.
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It has been said by a real scientist. No not the people here. That space-time our universe is like a round ball. Take off and go in one direction and you will eventually come around to the other side. So, if space is like that it only stands to reason time is like that since space-time can trade places. So if one can time travel eventually that person would come back to the time that person left whether or not that person is going forward or backwards in time. And if the universe is expanding or contracting then it might stand to reason the size of the universe has some kind of mathematical relation to how much time can pass in the universe. Another one of my more interesting observations.
 
I was thru here earlier and someone with the user name of Rainmain2 had posted after Recall and had a avaitor of Bush with a long beard wearing a turbin
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I saw that, but I didn't think of taking it to be Bush. But then, all of the Ayatollah's look the same to me. I rather think that Buck (Don't judge a Buck by his cover) actually follows Islam. I don't think they joke around with religion in that sense.

If you want to joke, stick to the Christians.
I'd like to see an avatar of Sarah Palin ascending toward a UFO,entitled "THE RAPTURE," though. :D
 
I saw that, but I didn't think of taking it to be Bush. But then, all of the Ayatollah's look the same to me. I rather think that Buck (Don't judge a Buck by his cover) actually follows Islam. I don't think they joke around with religion in that sense.

If you want to joke, stick to the Christians.
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Some of Bucks post seem to go back and forth. I hope he does not take this personaly but I don,t think he was Islamic. I think he was just faking it like some of the time travelers that come thru here do. Basicly he was full of BS and playing around. He said he was getting called names but did not seem to know what it ment that he was called. If he was Islamic he would of known.
 
It has been said by a real scientist. No not the people here. That space-time our universe is like a round ball. Take off and go in one direction and you will eventually come around to the other side.
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No, the latest WMAP observation show that on the large scale space is not curved but totally flat. This means that either the universe is very, very big ( much larger than the observable universe )..or it is infinite. Either way, you would never arrive back where you started.
 
I'm of the personal belief that there was a universe or universes in place before our specific big bang. The space still existed, so if time travel is possible, I would say sure, you should be able to time travel to before the big bang and you would find yourself in the previous universe that occupied this space.

And one thing no one brings up to my knowledge about time travel is this, since we're on the earth which is moving through space, to travel back in time to any date where the earth is in a different spacial position wouldn't that leave the time traveler out in space?
 
I think you are picking up on the original point above -
being that 'time' is a measurement of our perception, and the idea of 'chain reactions' in that context.
If I've learned one important thing here, it's that perception is just as, or more important than the perceived.
 
And one thing no one brings up to my knowledge about time travel is this, since we're on the earth which is moving through space, to travel back in time to any date where the earth is in a different spacial position wouldn't that leave the time traveler out in space?
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That's a very old idea. It's like saying that driving a car forward on earth will result in you being hurled into space because you're moving horizontal to the earth's surface. People don't think about time travel being a quick but continuous change. People are so impatient, they want everything to be instantaneous! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
And one thing no one brings up to my knowledge about time travel is this, since we're on the earth which is moving through space, to travel back in time to any date where the earth is in a different spacial position wouldn't that leave the time traveler out in space?
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It's brought up a few times a year.

The answer is that you shouldn't, in theory, arrive out in space. You define your starting point by four coordinates x, y, z, t and your target by four coordinates x', y', z', t'. If you know where you want to go in 4D spacetime you should not arrive out in space unless you've miscalculated something.

The real problem is one of velocity & momentum. If you carry your velocity & momentum along with you (and you should) and hit your target in such a way that the Earth's velocity vector is at an angle with respect to your velocity and momentum vectors you're going to be in trouble. You could end up augering in, be slightly below the surface, skipping along the surface or shooting off into space at a velocity up to 3 times escape velocity (30 km/sec). At least your ashes would be doing so if you hit the atmosphere at ~ 1,000,000 mph. I guess the upside is that you would enter the stage with a bang (or a sonic boom).

You should be able to determine what direction the Earth will be moving with respect to your motion when you arrive but it's probably better to arrive in space and make any adjustments there. A time traveling society would be fantastically advanced but getting the calculations precisely correct based on a target that is impossible to observe from the starting point is asking a lot of even the most advanced society, not to mention asking a lot of the crew who would have no opportunity to make corrections before disaster struck when they arrive at the target.
 
A time traveling society would be fantastically advanced but getting the calculations precisely correct based on a target that is impossible to observe from the starting point is asking a lot of even the most advanced society, not to mention asking a lot of the crew who would have no opportunity to make corrections before disaster struck when they arrive at the target.
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You're missing the obvious option: send an unmanned probe to test things before each "jump". Of course, I still think time travel will be a continuous change rather than a sudden jump. So I don't think the "appearing out in space" thing will be an issue.
 
Storm,

You're missing the obvious option: send an unmanned probe to test things before each "jump".
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Yes, that would be helpful. Even with super computers many generations advanced from ours plotting the future position of the Earth with an accuracy great enough to be able to safely land on the surface of the Earth would still be extremely difficult. We can plot the future position with reasonable accuracy for most purposes. Over the course of several months we can get it down to a couple of kilometers. But the number of variables involved with getting that calculation down to a few centimeters makes it virtually impossible. The Earth's orbital path is extremely complex and is an elipse only in the general approximation. The Earth-Moon center of gravity is about 4600 km from the Earth's center or about 1800 km below the surface. The Earth-Moon system swings around like a bar bell with the center of rotation 4600 km from the Earth's center of mass as they orbit the Sun. But that too is an approximation that has no finite solution. The oceans are liquid and are subject to tidal forces. They slosh around and introduce more oscillations to the system that cannot be predicted or calculated. The Earth's crust rests on a liquid mantle that is affected by the tidal forces of the Moon which introduces yet more oscillations into the system. Jupiter and Saturn have perturbing effects on the shape and oscillations of the Earth-Moon orbit and they affect each other's orbital mechanics. If we are looking for cm accuracy the other planets come into play as they slightly affect the Earth-Moon orbital mechanics. Sending the probe for a look-see and then arriving safely in space is probably the best solution.

I did make a "slight" error in the V-max that an incoming TT vehicle might have relative to the Earth, BTW.

Meteors strike the Earth's atmosphere at ~30 km/sec because they are relatively at rest with respect to the Earth. They don't so much strike the Earth as the Earth runs into them as its orbital path crosses their paths. A TT vehicle on an opposing course could have a V-max of 60 km/sec, not 30 km/sec.
 
You're making things too complicated. Time travel is really simple.
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It's as simple as breathing...unless you want to significantly alter the rate that time passes relative to two arbitrary frames. Then it gets a bit more complicated and maybe even not possible at all if the displacement is retrograde relative to the thermodynamic arrow of time.
 
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