TimeTraveler23
Chrono Cadet
If you are really from the future, anyone who claims that they are, this is for you to tell us who invented time travel.
who invented time travel?
- Thread starter TimeTraveler23
- Start date
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
According to al belik john von neumann invented the first crude time-machine, so 'crude' that it successfully transported someone from 1943 to 1983 and back to bring back a 1983 life magazine to the year 1943 back to dr. neumann.... load of garbage is my take on it, but just what I heard on an archive of coast to coast am.
--- Razimus
--- Razimus
TimeTraveler23
Chrono Cadet
Thanks for your post but do you have any idea how it was done?
Razimus
Temporal Navigator
on the load of garbage story? Well he didn't say specifically how it was done as I remember when he was asked how it was done all he said was similar technology than the philadelphia experiment, but what was required were atlantean crystals, I don't see how crystals would do anything but all the new agers consider quartz crystals to be powerful something I see no evidence of.
If time-travel exists I believe it is some sort of natural phenomenon, uncontrollable my man, a fluke in the universe, or a random warp in space and time not able to be controlled, but perhaps if man could control a sun and a black hole perhaps they could control time-travel but even then it wouldn't be easy to make it stable.
--- Razimus
If time-travel exists I believe it is some sort of natural phenomenon, uncontrollable my man, a fluke in the universe, or a random warp in space and time not able to be controlled, but perhaps if man could control a sun and a black hole perhaps they could control time-travel but even then it wouldn't be easy to make it stable.
--- Razimus
Darby
Epochal Historian
TT23,
If time travel was invented (and I'm assuming that you aren't refering to simple Special Relativity based TT) your question becomes moot.
The sort of time travel that we discuss here goes a lot further than suggesting a failure of causality. Causality violation is assumed. If you can time travel "cause" and "effect" don't have to follow in that order. In fact, "effect" doesn't have to be associated with any "cause" that can be determined.
If you could somehow take the POV of a god-like being who peers into the universe from the outside you could see the date, time, place and by whom the first gadget is invented.
From inside the universe the POV is very different.
For the sake of argument let's assume that the first gadget is invented by you and used for the first time by you today. It is used and improved on for the next 10,000 years. During that time it is guaranteed that the technology will find its way into a period that pre-dates today. Linear time as we normally perceive it becomes irrelevent in the sense that it is necessary to develop and spread the technology.
So "today" comes. Why would you even want to invent time travel? From your POV it already exists and probably in its most advanced form having been transported into your past from some future generation.
Even from some future generation's POV the same problem exists. Time travel technology exists in their past light cone thus they don't have any idea where it came from.
The god-like creature could poll the inhabitants at virtually any time in their history to find a time when they didn't have time machines available...and would be hard pressed to find a time when they didn't have it.
In effect, from inside the universe, it seems to have invented itself.
The upside for all of this, assuming that ones lives in such a universe, is that it wouldn't be paradoxical. During early childhood development when spatial-temporal relationship logic is imprinted on a child's mind these "illogical" causal relationships would be accepted as a normal part of everyday reality.
Because their "logic circuits" would be wired much differently than ours they would probably be able to answer your original question.
The downside relates to a tweak of the Weak Anthropic Principle. In the Weak Anthropic Principle we ask, "Why are we here?" The answer is, "Because the universe has evolved to the exact point to allow us to be able to ask the question."
The tweak is, "Why don't we have time machines?" Answer, "Because we are able to ask the question."
If time travel was invented (and I'm assuming that you aren't refering to simple Special Relativity based TT) your question becomes moot.
The sort of time travel that we discuss here goes a lot further than suggesting a failure of causality. Causality violation is assumed. If you can time travel "cause" and "effect" don't have to follow in that order. In fact, "effect" doesn't have to be associated with any "cause" that can be determined.
If you could somehow take the POV of a god-like being who peers into the universe from the outside you could see the date, time, place and by whom the first gadget is invented.
From inside the universe the POV is very different.
For the sake of argument let's assume that the first gadget is invented by you and used for the first time by you today. It is used and improved on for the next 10,000 years. During that time it is guaranteed that the technology will find its way into a period that pre-dates today. Linear time as we normally perceive it becomes irrelevent in the sense that it is necessary to develop and spread the technology.
So "today" comes. Why would you even want to invent time travel? From your POV it already exists and probably in its most advanced form having been transported into your past from some future generation.
Even from some future generation's POV the same problem exists. Time travel technology exists in their past light cone thus they don't have any idea where it came from.
The god-like creature could poll the inhabitants at virtually any time in their history to find a time when they didn't have time machines available...and would be hard pressed to find a time when they didn't have it.
In effect, from inside the universe, it seems to have invented itself.
The upside for all of this, assuming that ones lives in such a universe, is that it wouldn't be paradoxical. During early childhood development when spatial-temporal relationship logic is imprinted on a child's mind these "illogical" causal relationships would be accepted as a normal part of everyday reality.
Because their "logic circuits" would be wired much differently than ours they would probably be able to answer your original question.
The downside relates to a tweak of the Weak Anthropic Principle. In the Weak Anthropic Principle we ask, "Why are we here?" The answer is, "Because the universe has evolved to the exact point to allow us to be able to ask the question."
The tweak is, "Why don't we have time machines?" Answer, "Because we are able to ask the question."