What if NATO allies and USSR engaged in war?
- Thread starter wa1ex
- Start date
paladius
Temporal Navigator
It is interesting to think how MAD has changed over the past 20 yrs.
Some differences between now and then...
-Russia is less likely to nuke China due to increased economic partnerships.
-Much more nuclear activity would be expected in middle east, india, and pakistan.
-Southern Hemisphere would likely be more affected due to increased bombs from warsaw pact due to Aussie's increased involvement/cooperation with nato forces in recent yrs. Egypt would likely get some, increasing radiation levels in southern hemisphere.
-there are many more survialist types in usa now then there was in 1988, increasing likely post war survivors
-space based laser and ground based anti-missile systems/shields have the potential to stop many warheads near borders, thus increasing fallout levels in europe, polar region, and pacific ocean.
Some differences between now and then...
-Russia is less likely to nuke China due to increased economic partnerships.
-Much more nuclear activity would be expected in middle east, india, and pakistan.
-Southern Hemisphere would likely be more affected due to increased bombs from warsaw pact due to Aussie's increased involvement/cooperation with nato forces in recent yrs. Egypt would likely get some, increasing radiation levels in southern hemisphere.
-there are many more survialist types in usa now then there was in 1988, increasing likely post war survivors
-space based laser and ground based anti-missile systems/shields have the potential to stop many warheads near borders, thus increasing fallout levels in europe, polar region, and pacific ocean.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
To a certain extent, I would agree. And if you read-up on Thomas Jefferson, one of his basic premises is the following: If governments are paranoid about their own people, that is when you have the highest probability of true freedom because the government will spend time figuring out how to keep its populace happy. The more time they spend worrying about keeping their people happy, the less time they have to worry or be paranoid about other governments. Hence, we would rather have it where our government is more afraid of us than they are of another country. That keeps them honest.
Right now, I see the US government playing the fear card:
1) Fear that social security won't be there in the future (true, but some of us are not even counting on it, so why fear that?).
2) Fear that some people (certainly a small minority) will not have access to basic health care (unfounded, since anyone can walk into any hospital and get treated without consideration of their ability to pay).
3) Fear that "Global Warming" will destroy our home planet (this is pan-global fear mongering of the worst kind, because it abuses science to achieve political goals).
And on and on... Both DEM and REPUB parties are guilty of this fear mongering. Probably because they know if the people are more afraid of the GOV no one will ever question their absolute authority and absolute power (which corrupts absolutely!).
RMT
paladius
Temporal Navigator
I think the UN is playing a much larger role in global affairs these days and helping to foster fear mongering. The more people that rely on government for their well being the less the government fears the people. Currently, there is government push to:
- turn illegals into voters
- quietly reduce guns (although Obama is not currently looking to reduce guns through congressional law, he has recently made import laws more constricting based on UN recommendations)
- provide health care services by government (as RMT already stated, anyone can walk into hospital and get treated, and the taxpayer (government) pays the bill). But with the new push for government health care, this same treatment is now called health care instead of damage care and the people will be indebted to the government for changing its name.
- the government has added a large portion of the jobs that have been created in 2009 to stem job losses. These are ALL paid for with tax payer dollars and there are far fewer tax payer dollars because less people have jobs that actually produce wealth. NY last year increased their spending because they got stimulus dollars. A few months later they found out that the income taxes they used to collect from wall street profits was slashed in half (making over 30% of state budget). NY is now scrambling and withholding payments to schools, who in turn are increasing property taxes across the board. In an effort to raise more money, NY decided to tax the fck out of health insurance companies, who in turn wanted to raise rates 40-50% in single year. That was illegal, so the insurance companies discontinued old health plans and made new ones with the new prices. NY is will fall this summer. The Fed is playing the exact same game, but is doing a better job of hiding the numbers. The Fed will break within 6 months of their next budget.
All in all, the government is placing itself in a position to NOT fear the people. According to TJ, this leads them only to fear other governments.
- turn illegals into voters
- quietly reduce guns (although Obama is not currently looking to reduce guns through congressional law, he has recently made import laws more constricting based on UN recommendations)
- provide health care services by government (as RMT already stated, anyone can walk into hospital and get treated, and the taxpayer (government) pays the bill). But with the new push for government health care, this same treatment is now called health care instead of damage care and the people will be indebted to the government for changing its name.
- the government has added a large portion of the jobs that have been created in 2009 to stem job losses. These are ALL paid for with tax payer dollars and there are far fewer tax payer dollars because less people have jobs that actually produce wealth. NY last year increased their spending because they got stimulus dollars. A few months later they found out that the income taxes they used to collect from wall street profits was slashed in half (making over 30% of state budget). NY is now scrambling and withholding payments to schools, who in turn are increasing property taxes across the board. In an effort to raise more money, NY decided to tax the fck out of health insurance companies, who in turn wanted to raise rates 40-50% in single year. That was illegal, so the insurance companies discontinued old health plans and made new ones with the new prices. NY is will fall this summer. The Fed is playing the exact same game, but is doing a better job of hiding the numbers. The Fed will break within 6 months of their next budget.
All in all, the government is placing itself in a position to NOT fear the people. According to TJ, this leads them only to fear other governments.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
There appears to be several areas where we see eye-to-eye, Paladius. A good thing.
Yes, the UN actually wants to become the dominating factor in that "New World Order" that conspiracy theorists are always warning us about. The only difference is that such conspiracy theorists think it is the US GOV (usually when run by Republicans) that wants to become the NWO. Wrong, it is the UN that eagerly wants to control every aspect of everyone's lives on earth. And they are not even very good about concealing that wish. Now, there is no doubt that socialist-leaning liberals in the US (like Obama) want to help the UN achieve the status they seek. To me, that is why Obama is much more dangerous than Bush could ever have been. Obama would be willing to sell-out US sovereignty to the UN even if a majority of the populace disagrees with him and his socialist henchmen. Witness his willingness to commit to a treaty based on the UN IPCC's BAD SCIENCE of AGW.
RMT