Travelling in Time

T

Trex

Temporal Novice
Do you think it is possible to travel in time? How? Both in terms of physics and social outcomes.

Do you think serious or crazy scientists (or other people, Darby for example /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif) are currently working on this ardently?


Is it something a scientist can do on his/her own?

Do you think someone already built the machine and travels into the past and future regularly without anyone else knowing about it? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Can you say that the time machine would be the biggest invention ever?

Would you divulge it if you invented the time machine?

The Cern Experiment is not a direct time travel experiment, right? Why is it so important? When does the experiment finish? Do you agree with the two Russian mathematicians about this experiment?

I find something about time travel rather difficult to understand: is life something like a video which you can forward, backward, stop or play? Or is time absolute with no turning back, all doors back closed? Is there a way to know this apart from making a time machine and seeing it for yourself? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Let's say someone managed to make a time machine allowing them to travel into the past or future.
There are things we do not know: 1) whether there are multiverses 2) whether the traveller can cause changes to the time he/she went to. 3) whether he/she will be seen by other people.

Let's say there is only one worldline and in 2008 you invented a time machine and went to 2000 to meet yourself. In 2000 you lived but were not visited by your 2008 self. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif Without multiple worline scenario can this be possible? It seems to me if there is only one worldline, you can't change anything in the past. If there are multiverses, you can change things in the past at the expense of creating a new worldline.

Is there anything scientific behind multiverse theory?
 
Yes, It is mathematically feasible.
How isn't important, HOW MUCH is a more pertinent question.
More than likely , you would have to consider that a "person" traveling in time, is usually going for a purpose or material item, or why go? Would it not be easier to bring the item to yourself or send the information to yourself than going through all the messy work of playing with your own atomic structure?
Bring water to the horse I say.
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Absolutely.Why Darby though ,I think he would rather play with your perception.
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Standing on the shoulders of giants.
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I am the Alpha and the Omega.
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To a time traveler I guess. In the big picture, nah.
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If you wanted attention.
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No, to find the boson particle,or a particle that resembles pure gravity.
It would have to start first, It is only in the cool down phase now.
Please provide a link.
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Perception does not a reality make, or does it? It is possible to imagine going back in time, it is much harder to perceive going backwards through a singularity , imagine what came before the "big bang" and you get the idea. That is where most science gets stuck. Hard to see an outcome you don't even have the right question to.
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Thats a lot of assumptions almost into the fantasy realm.
Thats one theory, not one I hold.To me, another dimension is an altered state of forces reacting on an environment with different values.All forces are still in effect, but may not be stable.
Just by veiwing it you may have changed it, which also answers 3.
Everything is possible in you far event horizon, the closer you get to it, the probability of ANYTHING occurring diminishes.
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Depends on which theory you subscribe to. I'm not falling for it though.
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String theory.

The best part about time travel is that you can imagine it, which form it takes and the device that makes it possible may not be anything that you were expecting and may be a complete letdown.
Ground yourself in what you can observe and step away from the metaphysical.
 
Kanigo2,

What is event horizon? It is said that according to the Einstein's relativity, it is not possible to exceed the speed of light, thus making time travel impossible. Do you agree with this? Is this (that exceeding the speed of light is impossible) on the way to become a law [, if it's not already so]?
 
Trex,

Do you think serious or crazy scientists (or other people, Darby for example )
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I asure you that when I'm not here on the forum reading posts or writing a post - maybe 30 minutes a day on average - that time travel, John Titor and any other topic that we generally discuss here creep neither into my thoughts nor into my lexicon.

I'm not one of the unemployed/unemployable people who are obsessed with their predictions or the predictions of their heroes who spent 12-18 hours a day compulsively scanning the "news" to data fit vague references to equally vague predictions, I don't have dreams about John Titor, email experiments or Burger King signs that change, disappear or whatever. As far as I know my mental health is intact, but I could be wrong.


When I'm off the forum none of this exists IRL...as it should be.

In the real world I read physics texts, do wildlife rescue-rehab, hang out with a bunch of cowboys and run an Elks Lodge as the Secretary/COO and not necessarily in that order. No time for time travel.
 
I am going to just refer you to here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon

It explains it much faster than I can.


To go faster than light, implies you have to accelerate, because we are saturated with space-time.
Exactly what space time is: is subject to interpretation.

If we removed space-time, would light be everywhere at once?

Thats is really the question- Einstein was limited, he needed a calculable reference for the space-time and the BEST he could come up with was the speed of light, because nothing moves faster , In effect he assigned it the value of the pressure against the fastest moving thing.

I think his quote was, Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.
 
Let's say there is only one worldline and in 2008 you invented a time machine and went to 2000 to meet yourself. In 2000 you lived but were not visited by your 2008 self. Without multiple worline scenario can this be possible? It seems to me if there is only one worldline, you can't change anything in the past. If there are multiverses, you can change things in the past at the expense of creating a new worldline.
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The answer to the question is a lot more complex than meets the eye - and the solution doesn't have to make logical sense to maintain compliance with physical law.

Let's eliminate all references to sentient beings and just look at the physics.

You travel back to a time and place earlier in your life and meet yourself. "History" is somehow changed. That's the scenario.

Instead of looking at it from afar let's get up close and personal at the molecular level. There "you" are - two globs of mostly water molecules with some carbon based molecules all giggling around obeying the statistical laws of thermodynamics. As far as the molecules are concerned they coundn't care less (if a molecule could care about anything) who or what interacts with them or whether the other glob came from the present, future or past to interact with itself. They just keep on giggling around in a fluid or they just keep vibrating in a crystalline structure. It makes no real difference whether you, as the observer, run the clock forwards or backwards or observe two globs of matter - one of which is the doppleganger twin of the other come from the future. It all looks the same and the thermodynamic evolution of the globs is the same...as long as you continue to look at it from the molecular level.

The fact that we have the ability to think and, thus, perceive some sort of paradox isn't really a part of the physical process involved here. Let's change the perspective again.

Instead of looking at the same scenario at the molecular level let's back away and look at the Milky Way Galaxy from Andromeda. In a speck of dust in the Milky Way that we call the Solar System you meet your self in the past. From Andromeda we don't see anything change in the Milky Way. If we wait four of five billion years and look again we still won't see any change that appears to us to be odd in the Milky Way.

On both the hugely large galactic scale and the infinitely tiny molecular scale ongoing thermodynamic processes quickly swollow up, hide and ultimately erase all traces of the paradox.

So we discover that the molecules don't care and entire galaxies don't care that we somehow involved ourself in a "paradox" time travel scenario. There may be no paradox here at all other than the mental paradox that we perceive because of our particular perspective for viewing the event.
 
DARBY

It figures you'd be a fraternal of some type darb. Do you belong to any other lodges?
Forgive my OT. But I had to ask.

For my money though, I still bank on Titor. Feel free to call me crazy. Although I like darby also have a life.....Darbies perception of his fellow internet people is disturbing... Why is it that everyone online is fat, lazy , unemployed , and living in momas basement according to neocons?
 
Oh, sorry if I inadvertently offended you by putting your name there, Darby.
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Trex,

No offense taken at all and no though that one was intended, my friend.

For those who will read the original post relative to how much time I spend, on average, on the forum each day and then see that I've obviously spent more today than the average...

I'm in the Santa Barbara area and my home is 3 miles from the Gap fire. I'm home, packed and ready to scoop and scoot. My wife is on duty at the Humane Society because the equine rescue center is open. I have to stay here because we have 32 animals that I have to scoop before I can scoot...if and when that happens


Oh, yeah. Happy 4th of July. This is the second year in a row that I've spent the 4th in "scoop and scoot" mode. Last year it was the Zaca fire and the aforementioned cowboys (another thread) and their livestock were the ones that we were evacuating on the 4th.

I've got nothing beter to do right now than occupy myself here online.
 
Re: DARBY

Why is it that everyone online is fat, lazy , unemployed , and living in momas basement according to neocons?
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He tagged me on the unemployed, I am only waiting till paypal covers my creditcard balance with their insurance I paid for.
And my wife kicked my off the TV. LOL

I am still glad I found this place and I will pony up some picts from St. Cloud in a few.
Swamps, gators and the what nots, including my dog.

I reserve my opinions on everything, Its a trap. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I've got nothing beter to do right now than occupy myself here online.
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Same here, I just came out to florida after living in Anahiem for 12 years , Rememeber when that ash was blowing everywhere a few years ago off those I.E fires? Whew, Gotta be bad now All Santa Ana's?

On both the hugely large galactic scale and the infinitely tiny molecular scale ongoing thermodynamic processes quickly swollow up, hide and ultimately erase all traces of the paradox.
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Sorry didn't mean to hijack there I apologize. That would sum it up Darby. Far event horizon.
 
Re: DARBY

It figures you'd be a fraternal of some type darb. Do you belong to any other lodges?
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No other Lodges, just the Elks. I wouldn't have time for any other Lodge. Even though my lodge is relatively small (less than 300 members) it still requires about 30 hours of my time in the office every week to keep up on the bills, financial reports, membership paperwork, district, state and Grand Lodge reports, running the charities, tax authority paperwork, preparing for Lodge and committee meetings, etc. I'd never done non-profit accounting before I became first the Treasurer and then Secretary but I did have a fair amount of general accounting experience. Boy, did I get a surprise! Non-profit accounting is a "whole nother world". And then there's always the challenge of getting cowboys to follow the rules. God bless them one and all because all they want to do is get our charity money to the organizations and causes that we support in our community - but they sometimes just want to do it by saying, "Just get 'er done, hoss." The govmit and Grand Lodge don't exactly agree with that method.


So much for being retired. But I do love it.
 
Rememeber when that ash was blowing everywhere a few years ago off those I.E fires? Whew, Gotta be bad now All Santa Ana's?
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I do remember those fires. Our daughter and her husband's home was situated relative to the Anahein Hills about the same as our house is today relative to the fire. Three miles from the leading edge.

We've actually had a break on the winds. No Santa Ana's and the Sundowners have been topping at 30 knots with sustained 15 knot winds. We've had predictions (there's that term again, Kid
) of 30 sustained and 50 tops that haven't happened. It's the same forecast for this evening.

My weather station in the office says that right now (1118 hrs) its 93 degrees, 38% humidity, winds 2.6 knots S - directly at me.

The power has been on and off for the past three days and my UPS just kicked on. The lines haven't been down but the smoke has been so thick along the 240 kV lines that they have to shut them down before they started arcing. At that voltage even smoke and ash in the air becomes a good enough conductor to allow the lines to arc 10' - 12'.
 
Scientists work on ideas. The idea is whether time travelling (as it is termed which may be a bad litery term) is something to always ponder. In other words, there is slow Space travelling (which is actually still SpaceTime travelling) and faster ways to get the heck off of this Planet.

Currently, the idea of even beginning to think further about time travelling is that time travelling has to be self-consistent. It may be like you can visit the Past, but actually you really can not change it, if you attempt to, you may with the Multiverse Theory of there being many, many universes, you would probably branch off the tree and end up in a totally different worldline (universe) and there would still be the probability that a similiar worldline that was the future you were in (the Present) may yet still exist and go off on its own future, each worldline going off on its own future. So, if you attempted to change the Past, you end up in another worldline - which is like parallel universes, which the scientists lean towards - because of the infuriating math complexities that exist in working out the current math on any such subject.

It ends up with a lot of infinities and that does not lead anywhere, it is just an equation that ends up with infinities that tell the scientists nothing and must be wrong and not enough is known to get rid of those infinities.

That is why CERN may provide some answers in the future because it will be more powerful to help solve how this Universe is made or at least Energy and Matter.

Now it is thought that through the background Radiation ( term not quite correct but used anyway) that this Universe may have "bounced" and begin from another Universe, such as it was brought out by the late Dr. Carl Sagan that we are here on this Planet because we are on a Third Generation Star. There were earlier stars but they long ago exploaded and the Universe kept on generating newer stars out of the old dust and gases that make up the Universe, plus anything new that they find.

http://www.physorg.com/news133515283.html

So I guess, there must be some sort of rules that may allow time travel, and then SpaceTime travel. Space travelling would be in the same Universe, but ah, Time Travelling may not happen until the scientists learn more, so the distance between the stars can be travelled to in a faster time, whatever the science leads to. So experiments are being done to detect how Gravity works, and all of that nowadays, because it may involve manipulating gravity and spacetime and having enough energy to cut down the length of time it would take to get anywhere off of this Planet in the Universe.

Most of the scientists do the math on their own, but then someone has to pay the bills and usually someone who does pay the bills usually may want something different in the end. It depends on whether they see a benefit with developing anything or it may be a threat to them to develop anything like time travelling.

"Freedom" is not that "Free" and well anyway if God exists, He owns this Universe, and all the other ones, and also this "Planet". Some people have a hard time with that as it is nowadays anyway here on Planet Earth.

It may depend on whether the person is big enough not to always have his/her own way all the time, or most of the time, but learn to live with it, as it is in reality. Some people may also say what they think they think, but then the only thing that may later come out, is that those type of people were mainly trying to control anything and again, it comes down to having a Civilization and maybe some other people "growing up!".

But like a computer program, repeat the above paragraph as many times as you want to read it until it sinks into your brain. You are not being controlled by me, I have no desire to do that, other may have though.

ow....ee...........ow...ee.................

Control of your monitor may now return to you.
 
<font color="red">Do you think it is possible to travel in time? [/COLOR] Yes.
<font color="red">How? [/COLOR] By understanding time and building a machine to use what you know.
<font color="red">Both in terms of physics and social outcomes. [/COLOR] Physically, it's possible. Socially, noone will believe you.

<font color="red">Do you think serious or crazy scientists (or other people, Darby for example ) are currently working on this ardently? [/COLOR] Maybe.

<font color="red">Is it something a scientist can do on his/her own?[/COLOR] Yes, but only with a proper understanding of time.

<font color="red">Do you think someone already built the machine and travels into the past and future regularly without anyone else knowing about it? [/COLOR] Maybe.

<font color="red">Can you say that the time machine would be the biggest invention ever?[/COLOR] Yes, because a time machine represents a potential technological singularity: it allows every invention from the past and future to be brought to the present.

<font color="red">Would you divulge it if you invented the time machine?[/COLOR] No.

<font color="red">The Cern Experiment is not a direct time travel experiment, right? [/COLOR] Right.
<font color="red">Why is it so important? [/COLOR] To learn more about particle types and interactions.
<font color="red">When does the experiment finish? [/COLOR] Particle accelerators are used for many different experiments, not just one.
<font color="red">Do you agree with the two Russian mathematicians about this experiment? [/COLOR] Which ones?

<font color="red">I find something about time travel rather difficult to understand: is life something like a video which you can forward, backward, stop or play? [/COLOR] Somewhat.
<font color="red">Or is time absolute with no turning back, all doors back closed? [/COLOR] No.
<font color="red">Is there a way to know this apart from making a time machine and seeing it for yourself? [/COLOR] Yes, by understanding time.

<font color="red">Let's say someone managed to make a time machine allowing them to travel into the past or future.
There are things we do not know: 1) whether there are multiverses [/COLOR] There aren't.
<font color="red">2) whether the traveller can cause changes to the time he/she went to. [/COLOR] He can.
<font color="red">3) whether he/she will be seen by other people.[/COLOR] They will.

<font color="red">Let's say there is only one worldline and in 2008 you invented a time machine and went to 2000 to meet yourself. In 2000 you lived but were not visited by your 2008 self. Without multiple worline scenario can this be possible? [/COLOR] You most likely wouldn't recognize your future self.
<font color="red">It seems to me if there is only one worldline, you can't change anything in the past. [/COLOR] Forget worldlines. Past, present, and future coexist simultaneously.
<font color="red">If there are multiverses, you can change things in the past at the expense of creating a new worldline. [/COLOR] See above.

<font color="red">Is there anything scientific behind multiverse theory? [/COLOR] No.
 
Or is time absolute with no turning back, all doors back closed?

No.

<font color="blue">How can you be so sure of this?[/COLOR]

Is there a way to know this apart from making a time machine and seeing it for yourself?

Yes, by understanding time.

<font color="blue">What is your understanding of time?[/COLOR]
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- because of the infuriating math complexities that exist in working out the current math on any such subject.

It ends up with a lot of infinities and that does not lead anywhere, it is just an equation that ends up with infinities that tell the scientists nothing and must be wrong and not enough is known to get rid of those infinities.
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This is actually the Riemann Hypothesis: Nontrival zeros. LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_hypothesis

Still not solved but somebody tried again the other day- there is a $1M reward longest unsolved problem.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0807.0090

They need a formula to calculate is a number is prime with out doing all the messy math.- remember what I said about stability? Just imagine being able to solve a Mobius Loop.

Now why is that zero negative? Is that possible? Ah forget it- Its' trivial.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
Now why is that zero negative? Is that possible? Ah forget it- Its' trivial.
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You need to work with Aleph numbers...


ec89fa351886df4c322d268bd5562667.png


to get the fixed points aka the anchor coordinates of the Zero Time-frame...of reference... :D
 
<font color="red">Or is time absolute with no turning back, all doors back closed? [/COLOR] No.
<font color="blue">How can you be so sure of this?[/COLOR] Because I can see time's inner workings: the flow of information and the relation between past, present, and future.

<font color="red">Is there a way to know this apart from making a time machine and seeing it for yourself?[/COLOR] Yes, by understanding time.
<font color="blue">What is your understanding of time?[/COLOR] I don't like to post the information on public forums. Most people can't see past winning the lottery or killing their grandfather. There is too much potential for abuse if a passerby understands it.
 
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