The Stuff Which Keeps Hucksters in Business

L

LanaLang

Temporal Novice
Why are so many phonies claiming to have time traveled, and why are any of them accepted by this lot?

Because you've got critical thinking backwards.

I can't believe how many times I've seen people on here demand proof that something is a hoax, and when that proof cannot be provided, use that as evidence that it is not a hoax. This is the opposite of how it works in genuine science.

Consider the teacup orbiting Jupiter. There's no reason for me to believe that there is a teacup orbiting Jupiter. It could happen. The laws of physics say that if someone put a teacup in the right place near Jupiter, that it would orbit. I cannot go and check to see if there is a teacup there. No telescope can see that level of detail, and we do not have spacecraft capable of taking me there. BUT that is no reason for me TO believe that there is a teacup orbiting Jupiter - no matter how many times someone claims there is. It is logical, rational, and sane to assume that there IS NOT a teacup orbiting Jupiter. Because why would there be?

"Is there proof that this is a hoax?" is not a question which should be asked by the inquisitive. It is a question asked by those eager to believe. And those who are eager to believe will necessarily overlook the truth.

Because the truth is that time travel DOES happen and IS possible. But we're all going to MISS IT if we keep giving nonsense credibility to hucksters who want their fifteen minutes of fame!

 
Why are so many phonies claiming to have time traveled, and why are any of them accepted by this lot?Because you've got critical thinking backwards.
I can't believe how many times I've seen people on here demand proof that something is a hoax, and when that proof cannot be provided, use that as evidence that it is not a hoax. This is the opposite of how it works in genuine science.

Consider the teacup orbiting Jupiter. There's no reason for me to believe that there is a teacup orbiting Jupiter. It could happen. The laws of physics say that if someone put a teacup in the right place near Jupiter, that it would orbit. I cannot go and check to see if there is a teacup there. No telescope can see that level of detail, and we do not have spacecraft capable of taking me there. BUT that is no reason for me TO believe that there is a teacup orbiting Jupiter - no matter how many times someone claims there is. It is logical, rational, and sane to assume that there IS NOT a teacup orbiting Jupiter. Because why would there be?

"Is there proof that this is a hoax?" is not a question which should be asked by the inquisitive. It is a question asked by those eager to believe. And those who are eager to believe will necessarily overlook the truth.

Because the truth is that time travel DOES happen and IS possible. But we're all going to MISS IT if we keep giving nonsense credibility to hucksters who want their fifteen minutes of fame!
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Tell me some more about this truth you claim to possess about time travel actually happening and is possible.

 
I can't believe how many times I've seen people on here demand proof that something is a hoax, and when that proof cannot be provided, use that as evidence that it is not a hoax. This is the opposite of how it works in genuine science.
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Some people refuse to read/study/research the evidence that something is not hoax and make a belief statement with no basis. It's really easy to call something a hoax, but if you can back up what you claim, you become credible. It goes both ways for belief or disbelief.

"Is there proof that this is a hoax?" is not a question which should be asked by the inquisitive. It is a question asked by those eager to believe. And those who are eager to believe will necessarily overlook the truth.
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I ask that question to those who are eager to cry hoax. They can supply their evidence and point of view. If they have neither, then I'm not going to give it much thought, personally.
Example:

"Do you believe in ghosts?"

"No."

"Why not?"

"I just don't."

Does that place you instantly in the realm of disbelief? I'd hope not. It's much better to say:

"I don't believe because of a, b, and c".

IMHO[DOUBLEPOST=1410818695][/DOUBLEPOST]On the flip side, there ARE many hoaxters coming onto forums, but do I instantly call them fakes? No. I at least let them make a few statements and answer some questions, first.

 
"Do you believe in ghosts?"

"No"

"Why not?"

"WHY SHOULD I?"[DOUBLEPOST=1410818998][/DOUBLEPOST]Do you believe that there is a teacup orbiting Jupiter?

Do you believe that there is a two inch statue of Martha Washington high-fiving Pac-Man at the bottom of the deepest point of the ocean?

Do you believe there is the skeleton of a Rhesus monkey dressed as a clown on the dark side of the moon?

Why should you?

 
Nobody HAS to believe in anything, but I personally feel it is unreasonable to expect nobody to have discussions about the things that you personally don't believe in. If Cosmo says it's ok to discuss something, I'm going to discuss it. We don't have to agree. On a forum, it is considered good manners to have an intelligent conversation without badgering, insults, etc. We just share our points of view back and forth.

It's called a discussion. Not everyone is going to share your belief system. Einstein and I don't agree about everything but we manage to get along civilly now, right Einstein? :) :) I sometimes see topics that aren't my cup of tea, but I just move on and let them enjoy their discussion.

I'm not understanding why you are so upset. We are all just conversing.[DOUBLEPOST=1410819618][/DOUBLEPOST]Incidentally, asking someone questions is not giving them instant credibility.

 
I think use of caps has made me sound like I'm yelling. Let's try bolding for emphasis.

This isn't about what people believe, but why.

A person's only reason for believing these things is that they want to. The same reason people believe in leprechauns and fairies and that their dad will someday come back home with that pack of smokes he went out for. They like the fuzzy feeling in their tummy when they believe it. But that's not reason. That's not logic. And that's not science.

I'm upset because when people fail to be critical, they harm the discussion. They're hurting our ability to have a real discussion about real things by polluting the effort with fairies and leprechauns. People are allowed to believe whatever you want, but that it is something that someone believes it is not what makes it credible.

We're trying to accomplish something here, and lending an ounce of credibility to these nobodies is seriously harming the endeavor.

If your reason for believing them is a lack of evidence against, then, again, do you believe there is a teacup currently orbiting Jupiter? Because by your logic, then you should believe that, too. Otherwise, you're just selecting things you like, not things which have any basis in fact. And that's not just hurting your ability to understand the world around you, and your ability to make good decisions; it is also causing useless noise which we now have to shout over.

 
A person's only reason for believing these things is that they want to. The same reason people believe in leprechauns and fairies and that their dad will someday come back home with that pack of smokes he went out for. They like the fuzzy feeling in their tummy when they believe it. But that's not reason. That's not logic. And that's not science.
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Sometimes this is the case. But, in my personal opinion, that I know not everybody shares, is that there is logic to the Titor story. I just personally give people a couple shots at proving themselves even if it sounds hokey in the beginning. Just my own style.

I'm upset because when people fail to be critical, they harm the discussion. They're hurting our ability to have a real discussion about real things by polluting the effort with fairies and leprechauns. People are allowed to believe whatever you want, but that it is something that someone believes it is not what makes it credible.
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I agree, but asking questions is definitely being critical. And yes, I agree that the fakes can decrease the quality of a conversation, but Cosmo isn't the type of person that is going to delete every person he may or may not think is an impostor. That's up to use to decide. :) :)

We're trying to accomplish something here, and lending an ounce of credibility to these nobodies is seriously harming the endeavor.
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I do agree with this. But asking them questions rather than writing them off can aid them in shooting themselves in the foot..digging their own grave...etc.... Sometimes, you just have to laugh. They will come and go.

If your reason for believing them is a lack of evidence against, then, again, do you believe there is a teacup currently orbiting Jupiter? Because by your logic, then you should believe that, too. Otherwise, you're just selecting things you like, not things which have any basis in fact. And that's not just hurting your ability to understand the world around you, and your ability to make good decisions; it is also causing useless noise which we now have to shout over.
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My only advice is to let people believe what they want to believe. People will always be different. And the hoaxers will always keep trying.
They always fade away and we continue on. :)

Addendum:

Part of critical thinking is analysis. Part of analysis is investigation. Part of investigation is asking questions.

Personally, the only claimant I believe a the moment is Titor. *shrug*

 
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Einstein and I don't agree about everything but we manage to get along civilly now, right Einstein? :) :) [DOUBLEPOST=1410819618][/DOUBLEPOST]Incidentally, asking someone questions is not giving them instant credibility.
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I do believe I may have forgiven you for having the reasoning powers of a woman.

 
Well darn it. Now you've got me thinking about the eccentricity, inclination, orbital period, altitude, and other orbital characteristics of this tea cup. :p
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Sounds like you're contemplating a docking maneuver.

 
All it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. These 5 people pull a hoax because they want attention, then the 10 people who have really time traveled are going to be considered hoaxes.

 
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All it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. These 5 people pull a hoax because they want attention, then the 10 people who have really time traveled are going to be considered hoaxes.
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Yep, it only takes one bad apple to ruin it for the rest.

 
Reasoning power of a woman, eh? I'll just pretend I didn't read that. :cautious:

Someone would have to come up with some pretty concrete evidence for me to believe that they had time traveled. However, that does not preclude my belief that it can, in fact, happen.

Why do they lie about it? To get attention. Why does anyone do anything? For gain.

 
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