The Large Hadron Collider

W

welshgirllowri

Temporal Novice
Hi, I'm sure some people here would have heard of the Large Hadron Collider by now. The LHC is a huge particle accellerator located near Geneva, underground on the French/Swiss border. A massive, international project, with 111 nations contributing and a budget of £3.5m, due to come online in May, certain Russian scientists claim that the hadrons they're colliding could potentially open up a wormhole and transport objects from the future to the present. Now I personally don't like the LHC. As far as I'm concerned, they stole my research, as I had calculated that all we'd need was a large particle accellerator to send objects back in the past years before I'd ever heard of the LHC. OK, so I know I'm only fourteen, but I think that no good could come out of this. Do you think the LHC could potentially become the world's first time machine?
 
<font color="pink"> OK, so I know I'm only fourteen, but I think that no good could come out of this. Do you think the LHC could potentially become the world's first time machine? [/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed some timetravelers are hinted that... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif

ie:
just search here "LHC", as we hear about the ghost in the corridors of LHC on 2007 and other histories ...

and this:

Reflections of the Space Time

then:
Link to "I work at CERN " thread

Else:
When CERN is turned on...
<font color="red">
"01001010!!!" [/COLOR]

:oops:
 
Lowri,

I think that no good could come out of this. Do you think the LHC could potentially become the world's first time machine?
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Not in the sense that we usually think of what a time machine might be. To be sure, what happens at the quantum level of individual sub-atomic particles is weird from our everyday perspective but that's quantum physics in a nut-shell.

Will colliding two hadrons, say two neutrons, open up a wormhole that will swollow up the planet? No. Protons and neutrons are already as dense a material as is possible short of a black hole. Think of Dr. Tipler's rotating neutronium cylinder gedanken experiment. Neutrons and protons are slightly more dense than neutronium and as individual particles their angular momentum is greater than Tipler's cylinder. If his experiment, on a large scale, doesn't open up wormholes then the mass of two hadrons won't do so either. Even if two hadrons could form a stable black hole you'd never know about it. The gravitational field created would have no more effect on the neighboring atoms than a hydrogen-2 atom would. Same mass, same gravitational field. It would only be different if atoms/particles got very close to the black hole. By "very close" I mean much closer than the average distance between atoms in, say, a water molecule. And if that would occur the neighboring atom would be swollowed up. After a few million years the black hole, now having a mass of a few million proton/neutron masses would have created a vacuum around it similar to what, theoretically, occurs at the center of a galaxy when its central black hole carves out a void around itself. (It wouldn't make much difference if you got two protons, rather than neutrons, to stick together. The huge positive charge would attract two electrons electromagnetically - that force is 10^42 times greater than gravitation - and the black hole would almost instantly become electrically neutral and the total mass would only go from ~3680 electron masses to ~3682 electron masses.)

More important is the observation that such a small mass would evaporate via Hawking Radiation in a few nanoseconds and be gone.

What we can learn from such an object is to see how the initial few nanoseconds of the universe might have been like.
 
Whoa! Did Darby just come close to stating that injecting electrons onto the surface of a microsingularity could create a stable wormhole? Hmmm ... that's Titorific!

I imagine that black holes aren't black holes at all, but black bubbles. Our entire universe exists inside this black bubble. So, when the surrounding blackness penetrates through anywhere/everywhere, it's just a normal occurrence. Dark matter anyone? Of course manipulation of this fabric would allow us to hop universes - the other universes caught in their own black bubbles. So, is the universe being sucked into this black egg - thus causing the acceleration of all matter? Or, is the bubble stretching out in anticipation of its deflation some other time? Maybe, like an overinflated chewing gum bubble, it pops and leaves our poor universe a patchwork of sticky mess stuck to the irregularly shaped multiverse's face. Maybe that's where we are now, with black heads(holes) popping up all the time.

In 2005, Zeshua said we would know that her method of sending data to the past was an absolute fact after 2009. I suppose the first beeps of Morse code showing up on an oscilloscope at the LHC might say, “One small step for matter, one giant leap for all time.”
 
but if we were in a black "bubble," time would stand still right?

its my opinion that people overdramatise the universe. what if the universe is just a "bubble?" what if theres always going to be a battle over everything and thats just the way it is? the universe shows the motto "survival of the fittest" better than anything.

what if a star going supernova is just a star running out of patience and trying to win the battle? :eek:

you can replace the words "patience" and "battle" if you like.
 
WelshGirl,
first, off, teh LHC cost 3.5 BILLION euros, not million. Its named after a guy (whose last name is Hadon) who first postulated that a certain particle must exist that holds all matter together and thus creates gravity. This particle would explain the "k" factor in Einsteins equation of relativity.

You see, Einstein figured out a whole bunch of math stuff, and everywhere he looked, his equations all seemed to fit. Only problem was, that in order to make his equations balance out mathmematicaly, he had to add a mysterious factor "k". Hadon, suggested a few decades ago, that "k" was made up of tiny particles inside electrons and protons. They are so small, that no body has been able to measure them to prove their existance yet. Hadon recently toured the LHC and he believes that we will be able to measure the Hadon particles within the year.

Now FermiLab, here in the USA, is a smaller LHC. And it is believed by some, that the Hadon particles have been produced at Fermi, but Fermi does not have the energy to produce something that is measureable. This may be true, or it may not, but eitherway, there is yet another, less publicized particle accelerator, which unlike the others that belong to the public domain, this new one belong solely to the government and is located on a secured military base. Big questions are....
A) does the Hadon particle even exist? And if it does, is it not only a unit of gravity, but a unit of time?
B) what if previous accelerators have not reached the critical energy density necessary to break down matter into units of gravity and time until the LCH comes online? Will a wormhole be opened up? And does that fall in line with Zeshuas farewell proverb which I believe losely translates to "we will have visitors soon"?
 
Whoa! Did Darby just come close to stating that injecting electrons onto the surface of a microsingularity could create a stable wormhole? Hmmm ... that's Titorific!
Click to expand...

Jim,

No, that's not at all what I suggested. In Titor's theory he started with a micro-mass black hole that was charged negatively by injecting electrons. If that was possible, and in theory it isn't, he would have a black hole that had a net electric charge 10^42 times greater than the net grvitational force. Gravity is not the "know-all, be all" of the four forces. In fact it is by far the weakest. A black hole that has both a micro mass and a net charge is extremely unstable by definition. It can blow apart. It should blow apart.

As I said it is very improbable that one could form a black hole that has a net charge that exceeds its net gravitational force. Sub-atomic particles do not have well defined velocities and positions. Just how one gets an electron to comply with melding into a black hole that is already negatively charged is a problem that can't be dismissed with Titor's hand waving approach. Negative charges repel. If his black hole has a net charge of -2 (two electrons) and one attempts to inject a third electron into the hole the chance that that third electron arrives at the event horizon and crosses it is almost zero. What he described is physically impossible. If one doubts this just try to get two magnets to touch each other when you arrange them to have the same pole facing each other. When you fail to accomplish the task remember that you are using electromagnetic force, muscular activity, in your attempt to get the magnets to touch each other. Having recalled this fact then think about how you could get the magnets as close as you did after you reduce your available force to 1/10^42... gravitation, rather than electromagnetism.
 
what if a star going supernova is just a star running out of patience and trying to win the battle?
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Ruthless,

Wow...you're very close there.

A star, at the end of its life after leaving the Main Sequence, does in fact come to a point where the fight between electromagnetism and gravitation is resolved. While the star is fusing hydrogen into helium the balance is maintained. Electromagnetism in the form of radiant energy attempts to expand the star. Gravitation attempts to collapse the star. Over time the star settles into a form of equilibrium where it is relatively stable in size - but it does "buzz". It expands and contracts with a rather regular frequency that can be detected.

But after the star runs out of sufficient hydrogen to maintain the equilibrium it begins to fuse helium and a few other daughter neucleo synthisized elements into heavier elements. When it starts to fuse iron it is at the end of its stable life. It swells into a red giant, suddenly cools and collapses into its death. What happens next is dependent on its mass. It can become a stable white dwarf, cool off over billions of years and end as a cold star. If its mass is greater it can nova or super nova - it blows up. From that final act of life is born the heavy elements that make up a tiny fraction of the total mass of the universe that becomes secondary stars (such as our star Sol), planets, comets, etc.
 
first, off, teh LHC cost 3.5 BILLION euros, not million. Its named after a guy (whose last name is Hadon) who first postulated that a certain particle must exist that holds all matter together and thus creates gravity. This particle would explain the "k" factor in Einsteins equation of relativity.
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Say what??!

It isn't "Hadon". The word is "hadron". The word is derived from the Greek word "hadros". It means "thick" or massive. Hadrons are particles that are composed of quarks and react to the strong nuclear force.

Hadrons do have a gravitational field associated with them. Electrons, which are leptons - not hadrons, also have gravitational field assocaited with them. But electrons do not react to the strong nuclear force. If they did you and I wouldn't be here to make our posts.
 
before physics was created, there was a person who understood things greatly. they then decided to put it on paper. i feel like i am no different. i just go the philosophical way other than the mathematic way.

i wonder how many realise how close physics, math, and philosophy are.
 
What about <font color="red"> Security Measures... [/COLOR]

quoted:
<font color="blue"> This is an PRESS RELEASE from notepad publishing Geneva Switzerland. Based on insider information

Date: 17. April 2008
Time: 14.48 Geneva Switzerland Time
Titel: 34 days left. Urgent update.
Source: www.notepad.ch

Project Plan Update:
If small issue perturbs critical path, then the effects propagate to the schedule as a whole.

Current issues:
The LHC had some improperly secured magnets which came loose in a testing phase and had to be redesigned and rebuilt.
Vacuum leaks may have slowed down the schedule by 2 more weeks.

Opinion:
Also, the LHC doesn't turn on with a switch. So there may be weeks of fine tuning before they attempt particle collisions. The 27 kilometers of LHC must keep track of unav
oidable motions at the sub-millimeter scale. So the exact start date depends both on what criteria you use to label a milestone as a start date and how the schedule changes ("slips") over time.

First that protons will be used in LHC: 15. June 2008
System 'Cold Date' (all 8 segments are cold): 1. June 2008
more info: indico.cern.ch

Current Test results:
Only one of the eight segments of the ring have passed the cool-down tests.
more info: [/COLOR]

lhc-new-homepage.web.cern.ch

http://www.notepad.ch/blogs/

----Time Travel discovey is a Matter of Time..... LOL-------
 
i wonder how many realise how close physics, math, and philosophy are.
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Once again you're absolutely spot on.

Physics was originally called "natural philosophy". In fact Newton's famous work is named, in Latin, "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica". In English "The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy" - or as we would call it today, the mathematical principles of physics.
 
Newest entry From Web site:


Saturday, April 19, 2008
something up??
I was at the one of the smaller accelerator sites yesterday. I was was doing some data analysis of the flow rates of the liquid nitrogen. It seems one of the steering magnets was not warming up correctly. They were taken out of service last week. Believe me that we would never let air enter the liniac tube. It would take all year to pump down to normal pressures. Something really struck me as funny. There is a guy who I met at a street corner I will not say who or what he was. He told me There is no reason on earth why the US government is spending billions of dollars just to see tiny particles. He elaborated that since the times of Enrico Fermi the DOD or what was then the department of war heavily funded particle beam and atomic research. It was icing on the cake that the USA is getting other countries to pay for research. Only three scientists have access to all of the data. And on the day when the LHC is on full power the detector room will be evacuated of nonessential personnel. This man also said that the scientists are actually searching for a singularity .
This not to be identified man said that The field and tensor equations that predict the hadron particle are bogus and made up. They do compute on and seem real but the real equations actually predict a charged stable singularity being created. The scientist believe that this singularity can be used to predict the future. All of the blackholes that are created at LHC are connected to each other. There is a class of singularity that allows information to pass through the event horizon. The purpose of the experiment is to create one blackhole capture it with a charged bottle the blackhole will gain enough mass to pass through the detector.Find its way into the bottle.This bottle is taken to a secure US installation. There they will listen in for some sort of signal either a shift in polarity or spin. they think that information put in blackholes created in the future somehow affect the ones created in the past. I know it sounds strange but from what I gather from what this man said the US is trying to create a time machine on the dime of other nations. He went on and on that the information retrieved from the singularity would be the same as our line to a deviation of .2% per 50 years. he rambled on and on that these singularities cannot transit more than 2^2 bits per second. because of error checking and handshaking. This singularity Must not be allowed to fall into the earth or it will begin to gain mass exponentially. the earth cannot be sucked into a pea sized dot because the gravitational field of the singularity will equal the gravitational field of the surrounding mantle. These two will equalize and we will have a blackhole for a core.
I feel really sick about this information. I hope that this man is just lying to me. Maybe its just a fanciful story. If it were true we will see events of the future happen very fast. it would be like time will be compressed even more when just ten years ago things were so much slower. This does not bode well for the human race. I do not feel that the scientists understand what time really is. Maybe they do and don't give a [censored].
I do not know why I listened to this man. Did he put my job and life in jeopardy? I am am just a glorified beer box ice man. all I do is put the cool in!
 
Pam:
in this order:

No, Yes, right, as the time past, we got sense of what John said...

2% has no meaning if is out of context...

but

" He went on and on that the information retrieved from the singularity would be the same as our line to a deviation of .2% per 50 years. he rambled on and on that these singularities cannot transit more than 2^2 bits per second. because of error checking and handshaking."

has many implications...

The God particle....Hmmmmmmmmm

Quoted:
-
know issues timeline:
(not confirmed, based on opinions)

ISSUE Large explosion: 2005
ISSUE Magnet failure: April 2007
TEST Test Sector warmup/coopdown cycle: 2007
QA ISSUE 7 of 8 segments failed cool-down tests
CANCELLED Complete warmup/cooldown cycle, Low power runs
INIT Experiments: now - 21. May 2008 (only rumours)
INIT System init (1. Time Beam injection): 21. May 2008
INIT Cold Date: 1. June 2008
INIT (1. Time Protons used): 15. June 2008
DOCU New safety report not released
START System activation (1. Time Circulating beams): July 2008
RISK Black hole (First collisions: August 2008
PROD System ready: October 2008
HIGH RISK EXPERIMENT Elevated black hole risk: 21. December 1212

end quoted:

from:
Blog...

RIDDLE

Freddy:
"What is at the basis of Everything?"
Teddy:
"Umm...Nothing?"

Historic data:
<font color="red">
New York Times Date: 4/15/2008 7:47:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
[/COLOR]

Wormhole, black hole and a shift....
 
and:

Quoted:

" Interesting day
Today I drove through max Planck roule. The atlas facility was on my way up there. The atlas facility houses some of the most powerful computers in the world. these computers are connected like the internet is connected. they have their own internet for distributed computing applications. I saw some interesting activity out front. usually there are no vehicles parked out front today there were about 5 all white lorries or what is known in USA as vans. these were painted all white and had no markings on the at all.The very last automobile was an army hummer. the front of the building is a no parking zone. Something is definitely up.It would seem strange that there is so much activity for computers. The guy I met the other day was somebody."

end quoted

more at:
Entry on blog...

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The atlas facility houses some of the most powerful computers in the world. these computers are connected like the internet is connected. they have their own internet for distributed computing applications.
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What a moron. Maybe he should have done even the slightest research about the Internet before he nabbed this snippet from last week's pop-sci press releases.

It's the other way around. The Internet (actually the World Wide Web) works like the computer communication system in a large research facility. In this case there's no question as to whether the egg came before the chicken. ARPANET came first in 1957 and then 1968 the research facilities connected to the network: UCLA, UCSB, Stanford and the University of Utah.
 
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