Sounds From The Past

T

Twighlight

Quantum Scribe
A fascinating concept, and one I am sure I have read has already had some success.

It's not just gramaphone records that can record sound. Potentially, various other things can too, given the right conditions. I recall reading not so long ago, though I forget the exact details, of a 'recording' that predates gramaphone records by some 20 years......somehow sound got etched into a pottery device or something. And I think there are older cases.

The ultimate....and maybe our resident archaeologists could confirm this is possible, would be to get any sound recorded in stuff like amber. Who knows.....maybe a Tyranosaurus roar.

To me this would be like having a time machine, and probably a lot more possible and feasible.
 
The problem is with extracting the recordings from the matrix of the amber, or from any material for that matter.

There are numerous ancient cultures that held a belief that the Earth ( any everything that is of Earth ) remembers everything experienced. Aside from the mystical perspective(s), it is reasonable to believe that energy from any number of sources leaves an impression of itself on other energy forms.

The T-Rex roaring, creates a vibration, that vibration is an energy form that intersects with the liquid state of the amber, and leaves it's imprint within the structure of the amber, and is, in essence, trapped within it.

However, how many other waveforms of energy also may have been captured by the amber ?

Would be interesting to transform a piece of amber into frequencies, and attempt to isolate audio impressions.

Who knows, maybe there are visual impressions within it as well.

Would be quite a process to accomplish such a feat, however, I would say the technology does exist today that could do it.

Although my area of focus is on the Petroglyphs of Black Canyon in the Mojave Desert of California, and the culture that created them, seems quite possible to do as you suggest given the time and proper equipment to carry out just such a project.
 
I have read about imprints, in which entire events in the past get recorded in the atmosphere and then plays back to unsuspecting individuals in the future. It can be scary, but imprints are harmless. It is just like watching a video clipping of what happened in the past.
 
There was some talk about sounds leaving grooves in pottery that could be played back at a later date, but debunkers jumped in. They was quick to ridicule as usual, and make fun of any idea that is new. I believe using technology more advanced than we have now we could one day reproduce these sounds, but now all we get is noise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeoacoustics
 
Who knows, maybe there are visual impressions within it as well.
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All one needs for a 'photo' to be captured is a pinpoint light entrance of some sort, and a light reactive material. At one point it was even suggested that this was how the Turin shroud had been created.

The main problem in nature would be having some means of cutting off the light after the 'photo' occured. There are actually cases not unlike this setup......for example a cave in Australia has a dark band along one wall, where over the years the repeated sun shining in through the narrow entrance has reacted with chemicals in the rock to create an odd dark band. I'll try and find where it is and get a pic. I'm sure similar must exist all over the place.

But a clear, sharp, picture would be much harder. Over a long period of time, perhaps the landscape outside a cave could be captured. I'm not sure if anyone has ever considered that...or even looked for evidence of it existing !
 
Although my area of focus is on the Petroglyphs of Black Canyon in the Mojave Desert of California
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It seems inconceivable to me that cultures that reached some level of sophistication, which was certainly true of many native Indian tribes, would not have noticed that some rocks and materials were 'light reactive' and perhaps made use of it.

Maybe a new branch...photoarchaeology.....should be created to investigate the notion. I find it impossible to believe that nobody ever made use of the concept prior to the modern camera.
 
As mentioned before, the problem is with extracting the relative information that may have been captured and transforming the information "back" into they're source state. A tad out of my league here, but it seems to me that the equipment offerred by this company might be useful in accomplishing just such an extraction.

Imago Scientific Instruments Corporation


Obviously, the atomic particles of an image would be a contaminent within the material. From what I read, metallic materials are being used, would be interesting to present the idea to Imago to see what they say is possible with their equipment.

The first thought that occur's to me is lightening as a possible source for visual impressions being captured.

The first step would be to see how light interacts with tree resin. To maybe make small sheet's of tree resin, and conduct experiments with small panels.

You would also have to utilize different possible environmental conditions, varying temperatures, and other possible affecting elements.

Is it possible to use a sheet of resin as a photographic plate of sorts ? The techniques for extracting the images might be different than normal recovery processes, but possible all the same.

Any visual image is merely a reflection of light, and if the tree resin happened to be in just the right location at just the right time, maybe a visual impression was captured, whether that be by lightening, fire, various chemical processes or merely solar radiation.

Another possibility are from the insects captured within the amber. Obviously they have optical systems, which are more than likely intact, so would it be possible to create a device that can extract the recorded information stored within the insects optical system and convert those signals back into a visual format to be seen on a screen ?

I would imagine that adapting BCI technology could be used for just such an application, depending on how advanced they have become with BCI technology.

Brain-Computer Interface


Certainly an interesting idea, and feasible, just would require a bit of ingenuity, creativity, and the appropriate application ( and acquisition ) of available resources.
 
It seems inconceivable to me that cultures that reached some level of sophistication, which was certainly true of many native Indian tribes, would not have noticed that some rocks and materials were 'light reactive' and perhaps made use of it.

Maybe a new branch...photoarchaeology.....should be created to investigate the notion. I find it impossible to believe that nobody ever made use of the concept prior to the modern camera.
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This is something considered relative to the Crystal Skulls. That they were perhaps data storage devices. The crystaline structure capable of having data recorded within. Once again, the problem is with extracting the data, IF there is indeed any data to be found.

One thing to keep in mind is that you would want to look at specific cultures. Many Native American groups were extremely mobile, survival a primary concern. So to look at the nomadic groups would probably not yield what you are looking for...where as an agricultural group might have taken the time to explore the uses of "light reactive" materials.

Another consideration would be from a superstitious perspective.

Even today, there are cultures that frown on their pictures being taken, as they believe such an action captures their souls. Rarely, amongst the Petroglyphs is there ever an image inscribed of a specific individual, and if there is any references to an individual, as in perhaps a prayer for an ill member of the group, symbols were used to represent that individual, not an image of the ill person.

It comes down to physical proof. There are numerous theories, but without the artifacts to back up the theories, the theories don't carry much weight. With all the artifacts discovered so far, none, excepting the Crystal Skull, has any indication(s) of them having any kind of image storing capabilites, at least in the manner you are suggesting.

Now, there are numerous sites that have yet to be 1) discovered 2) fully excavated and explored.

That one of those sites may yield an image recording "tool" is possible, however, based on what has been found so far, unlikely.

The sophistication of the groups usually was relative to survival. The use of sophisticated celestial markers having a purpose for knowing when to plant and when to harvest crops, or when to hunt for specific migrating herds of animals, or for the nomadic groups, when to pack up and move along.
 
Hi Twilight:

OK some of physical effects of the atom bomb include the ghostly shadows of persons vaporize with their image burned into walls and side walks - these ghostly images serve as a stark reminder of atomic power.

TAKEN FROM http://www.diagonalthoughts.com/?p=1005
"The first bomb, set to go off at a height of some five hundred metres, produced a nuclear flash which lasted one fifteen-millionth of a second, and whose brightness penetrated every building down to the cellars. It left its imprint on stone walls, changing their apparent colour through the fusion of certain minerals, although protected surfaces remained curiously unaltered. The same was the case with clothing and bodies, where kimono patterns were tattooed on the victims’ flesh. If photography, according to its inventor Nicephore Niepce, was simply a method of engraving with light, where bodies inscribed their traces by virtue of their own luminosity, nuclear weapons inherited both the darkroom of Niepce and Daguerre and the military search light. What appears in the heart of darkrooms is no longer a luminous out line but a shadow, one which sometimes , as in Hiroshima, is carried to the depths of cellars and vaults. The Japanese shadows are inscribed not, as in former times , on the screens of a shadow puppet theatre but on a new screen, the walls of the city.”

Akira Mizuta Lippit. Atomic Light (Shadow Optics) (2005)
“What was intimated in the radioactive culture of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries erupted at full force in Hiroshima and Nagasaki: if the atomic blasts and blackened skies can be thought of as massive cameras, then the victims of this dark atomic room can be seen as photographic effects. Seared organic and nonorganic matter left dark stains, opaque artefacts of once vital bodies, on the pavements and other surfaces of this grotesque theater. The “shadows”, as they were called, are actually photograms, images formed by the direct exposure of objects on photographic surfaces. Photographic sculptures. True photographs, more photographic than photographic images."
 
"The image on the Shroud of Turin is very subtle. The closer you get, the less distinct it becomes. One of the best ways to look at the Shroud image is on a photographic negative. There, the light and dark values are reversed and the image appears more realistic and natural."

I think it is interesting that the image on the shroud is more visible on a photographic negative.
 
Now THAT would be interesting to time travel back to the time when Jesus was in the burial cave to hide in the bushes. Watch what happens to the guards. Possibly see a sudden brightness coming from the cracks of where the stone was rolled against the burial cave and then see angels and then Jesus emerging from the cave. To pick up the clothe and examining it yourself before anyone got to the cave. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Some people stated that to view the Shroud of Turin properly, and according to these scientists and others who just stated this (and it was in the News somewhere I guess) that you need to see it in holographic form that they claim they made and then they state that it is the image of Jesus, according to them.

Now, I have not followed that up any, but since there is so much News I thought I just mention that, incase anyone wants to do a search on it, and maybe I will search it later.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of "emergency". It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries of Europe, it was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And "emergency" became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains. — Herbert Hoover.
 
http://www.tangle.com/view_video?viewkey=6b0c8d03d03e27d054b9
Turin Shroud - 3 Dimensional Holographic Image Brings Out Plaque Bearing The Word Lamb (right side - more info)

http://www.romereports.com/palio/index.php?newlang=english
That it came from here orginally, and that it may be as far back as 2000/2001

I am not a shroud researcher, therefore, I do not know~!

I have teenagers around, and that is all I know and they are bored, but as of yet, they are not reading a book.
Just teenagers, and well, like any of the rest of humans.

Now, I suppose I will have to babysit, since they want to throw snowballs for something that I did not do, except some of the ladies here will call in on them.
And all the emotional turmoil that comes out.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
You brought up an interesting idea in this thread, Twighlight. In thinking about what you have presented, it would be interesting take a slice of amber and run in through the Atomic Microscope. It seems to me that if it is possible to identify certain atomic elements, breaking down the slice, by a process of elimination, what eventually would be left that is unidentified ?

Perhaps light and sound impressions ?

Another concept you brought up is something that many computers do already. As an example, this computer has a back-up and a save-point for a specific state on a specific date. If for some reason, it becomes necessary, the computer, is in essence, taken BACK to an earlier date.

Real time travel verses H.G. Well's time travel. The "physical " components of the computer age. The "electrical" impulses do not, at least not in the same sense.

Years can go by, and if I insert the discs, and go through the restore process, my computer, electronically, will be returned to whatever date when those discs were made. Not physically, but, in essence, mentally.

Where I see this becoming exciting, is with the BCI Technology, nano-technology and bio-chip technology. IF at some point, there is a combination of virtual reality, BCI, and bio-chip technology, one merely has to create a disc of certain memories, then at a later date, perhaps years later, "plug-in" and could possibly re-live those moments ( in mind ).

What a tool for the courts some day, eh ? Instead of asking what happened on a certain date, would be something to merely download the events of the day under scrutiny.

With regards to tapping into some insects optical system, admitedly would be extremely difficult, considering the scale. And since the insect trapped in ancient tree resin, is quite dead, one would have to develop some way of electronically "re-animating" the targeted system(s).

However, as difficult as it would be, still seems possible.

Got me to thinking about larger creatures discovered frozen in ice...would it be possible to access certain portions of the brain and not only re-animate any particular system, but translate the data into an audio or visual format ?
 
" Another concept you brought up is something that many computers do already. As an example, this computer has a back-up and a save-point for a specific state on a specific date. If for some reason, it becomes necessary, the computer, is in essence, taken BACK to an earlier date. "


Well....the archaeological record clearly already is such a 'recording'. It is precisely how we know the history of life on Earth. Given the sheer lengths of time, and size of the Earth, I would find it incomprehensible that more detailed information never somehow got stored somewhere.

A 'photo' only requires a pinpoint source for the light to pass through.....and some form of photosensitive material. I suppose one would have to add some form of 'fixing' mechanism too, though even that may not be essential if one has a bright enough light source ( say lightning ) in a normally dark location, or if the material was covered immediately after the event.

It's an intriguing possibility, that over the billions of years......somewhere on Earth there may well exist a 'natural photograph'. Anyone who has ever seen the Sun shining through the leaves of trees will be aware that on an opposite wall one may see a complete image of the sun ( usually lots of them ).......so it's a mechanism that occurs on a daily basis.
 
Well...we are planning a expedition into Black Canyon in the fall of 2011. You are more than welcome to join in with the group and to look for exactly that...as it stand now the group includes an Archaeologist from the Bureau of Land Management out of D.C., and some other's in the field.

There are several caves that were used by the Medicine men and/or women, and who knows, maybe there is an image on one of the cave walls. Nobody has looked for any, so you would be the first.

If interested, let me know...actually anyone that is interested in going on the expedition, feel free to PM me for further details.

The region maybe ripe for what it is you are looking for...since it is wrought with numerous minerals and also may have experienced a meteor strike.
( One of the the theories I'm trying to establish during the trip out there, as well as trying to figure out what the Petroglyphs meant when they were inscribed onto the Basalt rock )
 
I just found these connections today. Very interesting and seems to connect what you are talking about as far as the ancients recording things in petroglyphs that have a solid basis in science recording "natural" phenomena.

Perhaps this is all "old hat" to you, but it is fairly new to me. It is intriguing, to say the least.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message939533/pg1

A referral to this site is also listed. Interesting stuff.

http://www.viewzone.com/endtime2x.html
 
Yes, interesting take on the Petroglyphs. However, I find the explaination(s) to be a bit of a stretch. In order to try to gain an understanding of the possible meaning of the Petroglyphs of Black Canyon, the dates of they're creation becomes crucial.

The dates so far range from between 15,000 years through to 7,000 years old.

Interestingly enough, just as pointed out in the linked material in your post, Eliakim, is locating the symbols that seem to be commonly found elsewhere. The symbol I am using as a marker of sorts, is the Sacred Circle or Medicine Wheel.

If you look up the details of the Medicine Wheel within various sources, you will notice that it is said that it was used by cultures in the South-Eastern region of Canada and down into the Mid-west region of North American. They have dated those Medicine Wheels as far back as 7.000 years old.

This struck me as odd.

Why the "wheels" within Black Canyon date "up to" 7,000 years old, and then the Big Horn Wheel is considered part of a vast set of old Native American sites that document 7,000 years of their history in that area.

Take a look at this photograph of the following Petroglyphs.

BlackCanyon1979.jpg


The symbol of the medicine wheel can be seen several times. From what I understand through my research is that the Medicine Wheel represents the cycles of existence. The individual that is creating the particular inscriptions, will inscribe a Medicine Wheel, representative of his/her life, and then add "shields" around his "wheel" for a variety of reasons.

If you study the photograph, you can see that some of the wheels are indicitive of different dates of inscription. The faded inscriptions obviously the oldest. Now, in looking at the Wheel on the right-side of the rock, it has an X within a specific quadrant of the Wheel.

It is known that different quadrants represent different seasons, so, is our ancient friend indicating a particular "time" ? Then describing events, things seen, prayers of certain wants, around "his/her" own life --- "attached to" and relative to his own circle of existence.

The explaination of the Wheel seems reasonable.

IF anyone stands in an open field, and then rotates around looking along the horizon in a 360 degree circumference, from an observational perspective, your life's world would appear to be contained within a circle.

This is further reinforced with observations of celestial objects. The Sun, the Moon and the Stars all appear to be circles. And then, we have a cyclical pattern of seasons. They come and they go, to once again return.

The Circle also has quite a bit of depth to it as far as symbology. The division of the Sacred Circle into four quadrants represent not only the specific seasons, but also mark direction, N, E, S and West. And the different points along the outer line of the circle, have certain "powers" assigned to each of the points. Whether that may be of the four elements, or the spirits given to those quadrants.

With the Big Horn Medicine Wheel, the major differences are 1) additional spokes 2) created on the ground, and is not an inscription.

Bighorn_medicine_wheel.jpg


There seems to be a difference with use of the different formats of the Wheels. The Big Horn Wheel also was used for celestial alignments.

Big Horn Medicine Wheel and its Alignments


The additional spokes also are representative to additional spiritual influences or powers.

As the people of the Black Canyon Culture possibly migrated to the East, and made contact with other groups, the wheel began to evolve.

Hard to ingnore that the faded wheel on the left side of the rock in the photo is dated some 12,000 years old, the one on the right, dated around 7,000 years old, shows that for many thousands of years the basic symbol did not change.

For whatever reason, the area was abandoned, and nobody really knows where the people went. However, it seems to me that the Big Horn Medicine Wheel is a clue.

This is what is said about the Medicine Wheels :

" Between 70 and 150 wheels have been identified in South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, and Saskatchewan. "

However, these are Wheels constructed on the ground. IF we are to take into consideration that the inscriptions of the Medicine Wheel are earlier versions of the same, then the use of the Wheel is much older.

In recognizing the different uses of the Wheel, depending upon whether it is an inscription or constructed on the ground, helps with trying to figure out the meaning of the other Petroglyphs.

IF the inscriptions are of a more personal nature, then so would the other inscriptions be, as well. It is then we have to try and connect personal experiences, wants and desires to the different "shields" that surround the inscribed wheels.

In the Black Canyon region, there are upwards of 10,000 Petroglpyhs. So, there are numerous inscriptions that were created, and each set more than likely had different intent, or messages to convey.

I feel that the direction the inscriptions face might have different meanings, as well.
 
It's striking to me how similar the medicine wheel and petroglyphs look like the mandelas of Tibet. Some time ago, I discovered a very real connection of the mandelas with the Old Testament Sanctuary Service and was kind of facinated at what they were creating. To create such complex pattern design and then destroy it as if allowing it to remain would somehow affect their views. I believe that Tibet has long lost the concept behind their creation. I also believe that the petroglyphs (like the mandelas) are like still pictures of a movie. The mandelas "morph", much like a series of pictures quickly flashing gives the appearance of a movie. The petroglyphs that you pictured seem very much like individual "scenes" of a movie.

The question now arises as to what are they for, by whom were they made and for whom were they designed. I believe that this, also, arises from the worldwide knowledge (which was lost) of God as taught by the world-traveling chosen people who were chosen to spread the knowledge of the one true God and His Sanctuary truths that were encapsulated within the drawings made and the mandelas created (not to mention the other cultures contacted within this time period. There is some evidence to show that the so-called Atlanteans were, in reality, the original Jews who also built the pyramids. It would seem that an attempt to keep the images alive were made all over the world. The scriptures speak of millenia passing before the culmination of events that would bring worldwide destruction upon our planet. It also would seem that warnings of future events are recorded in stonehenge, South America, the Hymalayan mountains, and many other spots (including inland US areas).

I wish I could go along with you to explore. It sounds like great fun and inspirational to be in the vicinity of antiquity. I would love to go to Tibet and South America too, but alas, my days of outdoor exploration is over. Cyberspace is the limit of my exploration these days. Enjoy your exploration. It's a worthwhile endeavor.
 
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