Patriot Act II

redrider

Temporal Novice
Sorry guys for 2 posts in under a half hour but i figured this was worth posting. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15541
Read that, i think its errily reminiscent of Titor talking about how when he was a kid his neighbor was searched without warrent and arrested for no apparent reason. This is infringing now on the very rights that make our constitution what it is. What ever happend to the right to a fair trial? Or inocent until proven guilty? I guess that went out the window along with the bill of rights. Another thing, do you think it was a coincidence that Sadamm was capture the same day this was passed? (Causing the news to be flooded with Saddam news and not this).... I think not. The government is not listening anymore. It seems like the end of ever other great empire in the world. The people are sitting back and saying "oh well it doesnt affect me today" Until soon enough their tapping your phones and searching your own home and not able to tell you why.
The following is from the website Legal permanent residents (like, say, my French wife), could be deported instantaneously, without a criminal charge or even evidence, if the Attorney General considers them a threat to national security. If they commit minor, non-terrorist offenses, they can still be booted out, without so much as a day in court, because the law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. As the American Civil Liberties Union stated in its long brief against the DSEA, "Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus – a protection guaranteed by the Constitution – since the Civil War."

What is going on here? And bush talking about God telling him to fight in Iraq. I think this is just the beginning also. If Bush can get these "emergency powers" and stay in office like FDR im afraid there will be a civil war.
 
Another thing, do you think it was a coincidence that Sadamm was capture the same day this was passed? (Causing the news to be flooded with Saddam news and not this).... I think not.

Hang on a second, I don't follow you on this point:

(a) Where (in the story or elsewhere) does is say this draft of what was loosely termed "Patriot II" was ever PASSED? Much less what DATE it was allegedly passed on?
(b) I distinctly remember waking up on a SUNDAY morning to hear the news of Saddam's capture. He was actually captured DEC 13th (SAT) around 8PM local time in Iraq.
(c) The last I checked, Congress does not do legislative business (i.e. pass laws) on SAT or SUN.
(d) In fact, if you check the Congressional Record, you will see they closed for all legislative business on DEC 9, 2003, with return on JAN 20, 2004.

Any thoughts? Kind Regards,
RainmanTIme
 
Another thing, do you think it was a coincidence that Sadamm was capture the same day this was passed? (Causing the news to be flooded with Saddam news and not this).... I think not

The article was written on April 2nd 2003, and the bill referred to is dated Jan 9th 2003 - did I read something wrong?(granted I didn't read the whole article)

James
 
Sorry guys, my fault. The page i posted was for the original Patriot Act II but thats has been watered down and renamed as H.R. 2417 you can read about it on the white house site http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031213-3.html
and here
http://www.guerrillanews.com/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=gnn&Number=243527&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0∂=1#Post243581
and here
http://thepete.com/thenewsblog/cgi-bin/archives/00000228.html
sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
You are correct that the date was a Saturday and congress doesn't do business on Saturday. That was intentional because noone was there to vote against that piece of crap -- the only way the neocons could push it through.

Personally I still don't believe that Saddam was actually captured. It's probably some bum they pulled out of the subway and paid to say "Hi!, I'm Saddam!"
 
You are correct that the date was a Saturday and congress doesn't do business on Saturday. That was intentional because noone was there to vote against that piece of crap -- the only way the neocons could push it through.

Whoops! Hang on! A bill can't become law without passing congressional approval before going to the president. So the event at the White House was simply the signing ceremony. That bill would have had to be passed by Congress first, and so the latest date that could have happened was DEC 8th. In fact, checking the Congressional Record online, it looks like both houses actually approved the bill on 25 NOV, and presented it to the president on 8 DEC.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
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