Meeting yourself theory.

[Skarpz]

I've thought about the idea of meeting one's self and I think it would be true that the same mass can't be in the same place at the same time. I wanted to know if anyone had the science behind it. I've only heard about it from television or the movies but in my belief I believe it to be true. I just don't know why.

 

[Darby]

I've thought about the idea of meeting one's self and I think it would be true that the same mass can't be in the same place at the same time. I wanted to know if anyone had the science behind it. I've only heard about it from television or the movies but in my belief I believe it to be true. I just don't know why.

Yeah, it's a bit of a sci-fi "principle" but it isn't founded on real science. I suppose that it is losely based on Pauli's Exclusion Principle. It's always misstated, however. It applies only to fermions (spin 1/2 particles: electrons, muons, taus, electron nuetrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos, their anti-matter "twins" plus the 6 quarks their anti-matter "twins" - I believe that that comes to 24 particles). It says that no two fermions can share the same quantum state. Bosons (spin 1 particles: photons, mesons, neutrons, protons and their anti-particles) can share the same quantum state. Regards photons, that's exactly how a laser works - you put all of the photons in the beam into the same quantum state. That being said, even electrons can share the same place at the same time. All that is required is that they have opposite spin, meaning that they don't share the same quantum state even though they share the same space (oribital shell).

Meeting one's self (if it is actually possible) doesn't mean that the two bodies share the same quantum state or even the same space. Reaching out and shaking the hand of your "other" self isn't occupying the same state or space any more than should you reach out and shake the hand of a friend.

 

[Transient001]

Interesting.....

That being said, even electrons can share the same place at the same time. All that is required is that they have opposite spin, meaning that they don't share the same quantum state even though they share the same space (oribital shell).

In this case these particles can share the same "space" because their actions are different. Should they rotate in the same direction their actions would be the same and things would be very different.

I too believe you can actually meet a previous, future or sideways self, however taking into consideration Hilbert's Theory of Identical Particles could they actually interact? Or would they simply revolve around each other warping time, repulsing matter and bending space?

 

[Darby]

Interesting.....



In this case these particles can share the same "space" because their actions are different. Should they rotate in the same direction their actions would be the same and things would be very different.

I too believe you can actually meet a previous, future or sideways self, however taking into consideration Hilbert's Theory of Identical Particles could they actually interact? Or would they simply revolve around each other warping time, repulsing matter and bending space?

Why would they interact by ripping holes in the spacetime continuum, collapsing the universe, blowing up the planet or some other sci-fi disaster? A proton is a proton is a proton. All elementary particles, i.e. photons, electrons, neutrinos, quarks, of a class are alike and there's no way to tell one from another. All composite particles are similarly alike (composite meaning they are made from two or more quarks - mesons, protons, neutrons). If they are all alike it makes no difference where they come from or what particular lump of matter they find themselves residing in. They interact normally, as expected. All particles have mass, mass gravitates, gravity warps spacetime. This is the basis of General Relativity.

Remember, when we talk about a particle's "spin" we aren't talking about orbits. Spin is a quantum state that really has no true classical physics analog. It is considered to be the intrinsic angular momentum of the particle (where I think you were refering to the orbital angular momentum). With a charged particle it indicates spin up or spin down if you run it through a Stern-Gerlach particle beam splitting device (it indicates the spin characteristic by the direction the particle is deflected when run through the polarized magnetic field).

 

[Transient001]

Yes but I believe Hilbert said that two identical particles would exhibit a strange behavior, tracing swirling lines around each other, but never being able to touch. What do you think of this?

PD I said warping time, repulsing matter and bending space...did not meant it to be an apocalyptic scenario; I am sorry if it came out wrong. What I meant or actually asked was that if by exhibiting such an exotic behavior if these two identical particles could actually affect timespace in some way?

 

[lledbetter2266]

There is no 'science' behind such a theory of 'meeting yourself' in a previous 'time period'. This of course, can not happen, and does not happen, even if you purposely attempt to 'find your previous self'. Quantum principles dictate, and are proven by experiment, to be 'uncertain'; therefore, upon 'time travel', one is probably not actually visiting a different 'time period', but instead a very similar (yet different) 'reality', in which the period visited appears accurate historically speaking, but, is in fact nothing more than an alternate version of the 'now' that very closely resembles the 'then' (time period desirable of visiting). However, it can never be known if this theory is true. It could be, certainly, that one really is traveling 'back in time'. However, current experiments and previously successful projects prove that range is limited exponentially (the further back you try to go, the less accurate the results, yet, the longer the duration). Also notable, are a lack of serious alterations of the 'future' upon return to the lab environment. (some minor changes have been noted, such as the subject remembering football uniforms differently, clothing styles slightly altered, etc.) But, these changes could very well be side effects upon the memory of the test subject, and can not be proven either pro or con. Currently, range is limited to an effective range of -135 yrs. Forward range is currently calculated as zero by our methods, and is therefore considered either impossible, or not currently possible. This idea is contrary to Einstein's theories, yet, they hold true, suggestive of serious flaws in Einstein's theories, most notably the idea that the speed of light has anything to do with 'time'. ( it does not).

 

[TimeSeer]

You also have to take into account the 'you' from right now does not contain all of the same mass that the 'you' of a few days ago- and certainly less so of the 'you' from three years ago. While some of the basic atoms inside of you will remain the same and remain a part of your molecular (and therefore atomic) structure, the majority of the atoms in you are not a part of you forever.

Some of the atoms that make up your cellular structure such as the atoms that make up your bones or skin or blood stay the same without regenerating over long periods of time. However many more cells replicate and replace others and this changes your atomic structure over time.

Those same atoms are combined with a particular trifecta of atoms (as a molecule) that recirculates in and out of the cellular structure of blood, bones, and skin: water. (H2O)

All of your cellular structure in your 'mass' contains water levels which fluctuate in and out of your 'mass'. Living cells require water to 'live' and the water thats in your body flows in and out of them, so the actual cells in 'the you' that travels to your future or past you are not all of your cells the EXACT same cells, (and therefore atoms, therfore muons, and other quantom parts). The water that is in you on any given day is flushed out and replaced by new water as the days progress.

Compound that with the fact you are an electrical organism- your body generates and utilizes electricity within its own nervous system- and that means electrons are jumping from atom to atom thereby not remaining the EXACT same atom (its structure still has electrons but not the exact same ones) and therefore the whole thing is a moot point.

I would support the theory however if you brought a static object- such as a piece of ceramic- and somehow reversed its spin to somehow turn it into anti-matter; then bring them together- you would have a big boom. A little oversimplified, but hopefully you get the point.

When you meet yourself during time travel, even discarding divergent wordline theory, you dont meet the same you because YOU change. The you that started reading this post isn't the same you that finished it.