Israeli researchers tout model of time machine

wa1ex

wa1ex

Temporal Navigator
Source:
http://eetimes.eu/uk/201203098

External source:
NETANYA, Israel — Researchers at the Technion University (Haifa, Israel) claim they have developed a theoretical model of a time machine that, in the distant future, could enable future generations to travel into the past.

Visit Link.

Again...just sharing...
 
OH my land this is super rich and I thank you for it. After reading that artical I am convinced the israelis want to build the time machine and they have charged Ori to do it and his task is to build off the model titor described... At some points in the artical Ori is useing some of the ideas from Titors/modern physics but at other points he is superimposing his own idea of how the unvierse MUST function according to him...I have corresponded with this dude..he is smart but not smart enough to overcome his faith and spiritual convictions. There can only be one Abram for him...one torah..one time line. And how he describes space time..whew...even the big egg heads of columbia and cambridge have already concluded that spacetime is more like a sheet or a membrane and not exactly like a string like Ori insists.

Israel wants that time machine baaad.

I think they should spend more time learning to get along with thier neighbors before they try to fly through time.

AWSOME artical..Ori is a riot!
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

I find all encompasing comments about groups of people detract from the actual content of your post.


As for this machine, it reminds of a song...

"Staaaaaar Treking, across the universe"
"Slowly going forward cause we cannot find reverse"

We can't figure out how to back up, so we build a new road? Good luck.
 
Wa1ex,

If you read the paper you'll see, as I've pointed out in several posts, that how a physicist defines the term "time machine" is quite a bit different that how it is usually defined on a site like this.

In a physicist's mind no mechanical device has to be present in a "time machine", meaning that a physical nuts & bolts machine isn't necessary. In their terminology a "time machine" is any area of spacetime where closed timelike curves (aka closed causal curves...CCC's) exist no matter what instrumentality caused the loop to form.

These are places where space is so curved that the future loops back to meet the past.
 
Follow-up yp last post:

What Ori is attempting in his paper is to put forward a theory that allows CTC's to exist in the "real world" where real matter exists.

Virtually all CTC theories of black holes are set in sterile, highly idealized universes where the only object that exists is the black hole - a black hole that existed in the infinite past and which will continue to exist into the infinite future. Those black holes were not created by the accumulation of matter because in those sterile universes no matter ever existed. Even the would-be time traveler who falls into the hole is a point particle with no mass, fields, etc.

In those solutions if real matter exists (stars, planets,comets, etc.) then the black hole solution "blows up" for one or more reasons.

BTW: Just because the other solutions are set in idealized universes doesn't mean that they as silly, useless or otherwise nonsense. They are valid solutions to the most complex physical theory ever found - general relativity. The solutions for general relativity are so complex that to even begin to understand them the physicists hae to start with baby steps - a clean, sterile universe as a gedankenexperiment test bed.
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

So it's the first "time machine" that will work in our universe? This theory should get more exposure then. It probably will, and we are hearing about it early.

Does everything that goes in come out at the same point in time though? Sounds like it would be congested.
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

bogz,

So it's the first "time machine" that will work in our universe?
Click to expand...

No. It's theoretical physics. Ori's theory is not complete. See some of Ori's toughts below (from the paper):

Several problems and important questions are still left open. Perhaps the most important one is the issue of stability. A stability analysis is beyond the scope of this paper, but there is comment worth noting. Although there are indications for classical and semiclassical instabilities in various TM models , the robustness and effectiveness of these instabilities are still unclear. Further research is required in order to assess the robustness and effectiveness of the various instability phenomena. The model constructed here may provide a more solid basis for a systematic stability analysis. A few of its features that could be important for a genuine stability analysis include: (i) having a regular initial hypersurface, (ii) asymptotic flatness, and (iii) admitting a well-posed system of evolution equations. None of the previous TM models demonstrated all these properties. Two other important open questions should be mentioned here:

1. It may turn out that the evolving spacetime includes a black hole, and all CCCs are imprisoned inside the event horizon. In such a case the formation of CCCs might still have crucial implications to various aspects of the internal black-hole physics and geometry (e.g. singularity formation), but nevertheless the external universe will not be
influenced.

2. In our present construction, the initial data on S involve strong (though finite) gravitational fields. Is it possible to create a TM spacetime of this kind starting from weak-field initial data on some earlier initial hypersurface? Rephrasing this question: is it possible to create such a TM spacetime by sending weak gravitational waves (from past null infinity) and diluted dust shells (from past timelike infinity) in the inward direction?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

Well I still can't visualize it. If you can go in at any point in the future and everything comes out at one point, then couldn't you only use it once?
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

bogz,

In the theories of CTL's as time machines you have a loop in time. It begins when the loop is created and continues into the future. You can't use them to travel farther into the past than the instant they are created. If the loop is created in 2007 you can't go back and observe the Revolutionary War.

Navigation is a difficult proposition. If you take specific paths and "orbit" the area of curvature you can get out of the loop at specific times. This depends on the path and the number of times you orbit the area of curvature.

So you don't just get on, loop around and get off at the same time that you got on. You can navigate, though just how that is done, precisely, is a far different game than creating a crude TM.

The big question that still remains even in Ori's theory is whether the solutions of general relativity apply to this universe. Simply making a black hole, mini or maxi, doesn't resolve the issue of whether the conditions in this universe allow them to create traversible spacetime warps. That's why Ori mentioned the "stability" issue. There are hundreds of variables in the real world that cause the theoretical TM's to "blow up" and become useless as viable TM's.
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

But the absurdity of a CTL..The instant the time machine is created then the loop begines..But is that when it first turned on? Will there be a power up process that constitutes a instant point?
Does the CTL include movement through space? I mean Could you only travel at the "instant point" of creation? What of the end point? Should the TM be destroyed in the the future what happens when you go forward full speed(?) into that spot? What if the destruction is only temporary and the TM is repaired? Will the CTL skip over te spot where the TM was broken for a period of time?

And then there is paradox to address.

To me the CTL seems like a lame duck answer to the question of time and relativity...

Basicly you got one stream of time but at this point time currents in the stream where one current goes on as normal and a special current goes in all directions for this limited amount time/space in the stream... then the two currents merge back into one and time goes on as normal.

Oris' math just doesn't sound logical when he explains his understanding...
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

Should the TM be destroyed in the the future what happens when you go forward full speed(?)
Click to expand...

Would the theory akin to a 'Multiverse' not account for all these things and make them a non-issue?
I understand the theory of the universe being 'aware'; however going with the above statement for speculation purposes, would a 'Multiverse' be just as 'aware' and self regulating? Therefore accounting for these variables?

I'd like someone to explain to me their theory in a plausible idea of a 'Multiverse' - how cognitive forward thought is seemingly centered upon 'one' at a time, and how that selection is determined?

If we go by the above theories at all, would one attribute deep delta sleep perhaps as a variable to this ever? If we suppose the subconscious presides in all possibilities? IE; under certain circumstances conscious focus may be adjusted to a very similar adjacent possibility with a said 'Multiverse'?

It's interesting to note how we suppose death (knot theory)/unconscious (subconscious)/conscious (frontal thinking) states are all closely linked.

So in a supposed 'Multiverse' train of thought - a knot may become interwoven again by selection of choice and possibility?

Intriguing stuff.
 
Re: Israeli researchers tout model of time machin

oh Gosh bump /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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