is this true???

Q

qbicle

Temporal Novice
First of: THIS POST is BASED on original research (meaning i did all/most the searching and the reasoning) so don't shoot me if I make the wrong conclusions, also i'm not a native english-speaker so excuse my grammar and spelling.

I read a lot of discussions, theories, and other stuff on Time-travel, And these are more or less the most notable i gathered the last ten-year:
- There are no (obvious) time-travellers around to tell if its possible or not
- Time-travelling has a lot of paradoxical properties
- Some notable persons claim that IF it is possible, it wouldn't be possible to go further than the
moment the device was turned on( and worked without error)
- it has a lot to do with Gravity, FTL-speed, etc...
- multiple timelines/universes

My reason why i'm into this kind of mind-blowing matter is that i'm writing a short-story with this as one of the themes. So here i go:

It is most unlikely to time-travel because of the information-loss that would occur. With information-loss i mean: the stuff in your head that you know you know.(= thoughts, knowledge,...)
Why?
Because: if time travel is compared to a regular travel
(in three dimensions + +Time(from 'here' 14.00h to 'there' 15.00h))
then you have to consider a FOUR-D version of yourself(traveller). The 'you' of now, isn't the 'you' of yesterday(or tomorrow). So if this is the case, you would 'regress' yourself to 'yourself' then(=without new information).

Lets say i've got one of these devlish machines and it is working perfectly (as perfect as one can expect of human-fabricated things) , allready for a week(=7x24h), and to make it interresting i gathered new invaluable information about the machine this instant: namely the 'GO'-switch's location. So with this in my mind, i can embark on a journey into the past, so, because i don't want to be stranding in the middle of the dark-ages, i'll go to today's-yesterday.
So if today is ,17h24m45s 06:11:2007 (also the time that the crusial info popped up), i'll go to 17h24m45s 0<font color="red">5[/COLOR] :11:2007. (Yesterday i didn't know how to operate this exotic 'GO'-switch.)
So eventually i'll be stranding in yesterday???
My conclusion from this is that time travel isn't possible because of this information-loss. Proven(???) by the thought experiment stated above.

unless there are multiple timelines/universes, ofcourse.

ANY feedback would be apreciated.
 
Think of it this way:

Your brain is operating by electrical impulses, firing from neurons. Right?

What happens if you took a monoatomic substance which increases the firing speed of the neurons inside the brain? Of course, it would make you think and communicate faster than your average daily routine of thought processes.

This is a form of "organic time travel" deep inside your brain. However, when your brain is consistent on the fast firing speed, you will lose your basic general connection with the outside world. Communications and the way how you think of things, are beginning to be lost to people among you. People will have a difficult time understanding the way you are talking or thinking.

The organic frequencies of your brain is increased, thus making you start to speak or think in a language unknown to you before. Before you ever took the substance, you had high profiencient language skills and thought processes as you thought.

People understood you for the way you are. In due time, you are feeling "left out" from your friends and family. You tried to communicate with them, and you had to repeat several times over in order make your friends and family understand your language skill.

Years go by, your language skill is no longer understandable to the friends and family who you associated with. People started to think "Hmm there is something wrong with you" and "Why are you talking so differently? and why are you using a different language structure, equalled to high school or perhaps junior high school level?"

It is of apparent nature that we have all thought when we were growing up, that extremely intelligent people use advanced structures of languages and such radically advanced vocabulary tables. Such form of consistency of intelligence levels, requires a lot of use of cellular memory adaptations. Such adaptations coming from studying or learning becomes a habit. Once you have a habitual nature of high memory structure, you would then be considered "genius" to some people.

However, with the very same substance that you took years ago, you then realize that such advancement of language structures in order to communicate with people are no longer necessary. You would then succumb to "lower levels" of communication processes. This would also confuse the heck out of your friends and family. Arguments will occur and such alike between the issue of being "you" and your siblings, even your other relatives.

Then one day, you all of a sudden realize that you are no longer communicating with your friends and relatives. You also realize that you have "lost yourself" and there is no way to go back to who you once were. Dreams come and go, warning you that deep inside your mind, there is something else going on.

Your levels have stooped so low, that by the nature of the human body, your memory cells are not functioning much any longer, however is being transported to the neuron pathways. The host of neuron activity then serves it as memory only to recall anything such importance.

You have worked all your years of your life. One day you are laying on your death bed...

The passion moment of your sons and daughters sitting there looking at you, knowing that you will soon die according to the doctor's apologetic statements. Then it hits...

At the moment of body death, all of those memories starts to surge back into your brain, you are witnessing a spectacular moment of remembering everything all in a instant. Then when your body finally gave out, your brain finally stopped functioning.

Mankind's most mysterious question... "where do we go from there? after we die?"....

That is your conclusion to that question.

When you turn back the "clock" and those who have high intellectual levels by universal standards, will lose out so much. Those who are "degrading themselves" but are gaining intelligence from a unknown source, will be more fit to travel through time.

"Was your life worth it?" That's the question. It can easily conflict with all religions in the world, however do not let them tell you, you will have to witness it yourself... yourself alone.

"Time" is a man's invention. Think about it.

Everything we can think of, got "time" involved in it. Computers, cars, televisions, etc all have timing mechanisms in them of how they operate. We know that "time" is in it, but what about "travel"? Fanasty stories about time travel in space crafts, time machines, and so on, are only fanasties made up by science fiction writers.

If a true time traveller comes through into our time zone, he/she would never truly deeply understand how we think, how we communicate, and so on. It would be considered very alien to that person. If people from the immediate future, travelled to our current time zone, such like 30 years apart, then yes they would have basic understanding of how we know things. If a time traveller from 500 years in the future comes here, everything would be lost to that person.

This is why I study people's claims about being a time traveller. I know distinct differences just by their words alone, they are either real or fake. All of them I have ever met online and elsewhere are fakes, just because of how they think and speak.
 
Pro7,

Your brain is operating by electrical impulses, firing from neurons. Right?

What happens if you took a monoatomic substance which increases the firing speed of the neurons inside the brain? Of course, it would make you think and communicate faster than your average daily routine of thought processes.
Click to expand...

The process is electro-chemical. The dendrites of the presynaptic neuron release the neuro transmitter and the axon of the post-synaptic neuron receives the neuro transmitter - and then releases a neurotransmitterase (NTA) back into the synapse that neutralizes the neuro transmitter left in the synapse.

I can't see how a monatomic substance (a single element such as helium, hydrogen,lithium, beryllium...) would help here. The neurotransmitters and NTA's are complex amines, peptides, etc. The various neurotransmitters have specific receptor sites at the axon that only they and close analogs can attach to. (Beta blockers and certain psychotropics work by blocking specific receptor sites for instance. This is also what is thought to be going on in addictive substance abuse cases.)

There's also the issue of the "absolute refractory period". During the reuptake period (when the NTA is doing its job) there is a period of time when little or no neurotransmission is possible. You can, to some extent, reduce the ARP for short periods of time. But the reuptake mechanism ends up overwhelmed and the synapse ends up saturated with the NTA. That's the point when athletes, for instance, start having muscular cramps. It takes a finite period of time for the chemical action to take place during reuptake.

And this process of neuro transmission actually occurs at a very slow velocity. It's been a while since I took a neuro-pharm or neuro-physiology course, but as I recall - the velocity of transmission of neuro impulses along the nerve cells and through the synapses is something on the order of 300 fps.
 
yea.. speaking generally.

but is it possible that a monoatomic element could speed up the synaptics? Anything that is at a monoatomic level, such as injected in the blood?

heck even I forgot all about neurology lol. Makes me feel "low" when you start using those fancy words LOL.. hehe..
 
Pro7,

Anything that is at a monoatomic level
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm not familiar with how you're using the term "monatomic". Monatomic literally means "one atom". But its most frequent use it to identify a situation where a single element is present such as a monatomic gas. For exampe a gas that is pure elemental hydrogen.
 
but is it possible that a monoatomic element could speed up the synaptics?
Click to expand...

I don't know what element that would be. Lithium, for instance, is used as a psych med in combination with other drugs to slow neurotransmission but it only accomplishes this indirectly. Of course, its also poisonous. The psychiatrist has to closely monitor blood lithium levels to make sure that the patient doesn't get cured of depression but ends up croaking from lithium toxicity.

Obviously you can chemically enhance neurotransmission. There are entire classes of drugs that do that. Amphetamines, tricyclics and SSRI's are just three classes of such drugs.

But the bottom line really is that you can only speed up neurotransmission just so much. It takes a finite amount of time for the chemistry in the synapse to return to a state where another signal can be processed. If you continue to push the envelope you start with cramps, in the middle you get gran mal seizures and at the extreme you get dead either from the seizures or because neurotransmission competely stops when the synapse is so overloaded with the two chemicals (transmitter and transmitterase) that the synapse becomes chemically inert. No signal, no way, no how.

Rats in a Skinner Box can be programmed to stimulate themselves to death. Just add the "right" chemical to stimulate the snapses in the pleasure center of the brain.

The chemical feedback loop (reuptake mechanism) at the synapse is designed to prevent this from occuring. Doping it up with chemicals intented to override this system is a risky business.

And there's the issue of hyperthermia. You can speed things up but by doing that you also increase body temperature. That's not good. Bad joo-joo.
 
hmmm...

How about speeding up the synaptics gradually over time? I know at first it will be a shock in the system but it will get accustomed to it then additional "doses" are fed to gradually increase the firing of the synaptics. I am sure the brain will also get accustomed to the gradual increases.

would you also consider that a risky thing to do???
 
How about speeding up the synaptics gradually over time? I know at first it will be a shock in the system but it will get accustomed to it then additional "doses" are fed to gradually increase the firing of the synaptics. I am sure the brain will also get accustomed to the gradual increases.

would you also consider that a risky thing to do???
Click to expand...

If this were the case then every tweaker on the planet would be a fast neuron genius. They all start with low doses of amphetamines, build tollerance and then increase the dose. Eventually they either kick it or die. Being dead is the only thing that their brain will get used to if they continue to abuse the drug.

So, yes. Experimenting with stimulants is a risky business.

Again, this is a chemistry problem. You can increase the rate at which the reaction occurs but there is a limit. You add a chemical catalyst of some sort.

Actually...

what's this discussion really about? It's not time travel and its strayed far from qbicle's initial post. What are you trying to get at and how much are you theoretically trying to speed up the firing rate of neurons?
 
oh ok

What was I thinking is relating to "time travel". IF someone were to travel back into time or forward into time, I do believe the frequencies of the brain would be greatly effected. I dont truly think that someone just would go back or forward in time without being effected by it. This is why I would say that people who claim to be time travellers on this forum are all hoaxers because of what language structure they use to communicate.

Accumulation of using drugs or something that makes the brain gradually speed up the neurons might theoretically be a way to prevent such rapid decay of thinking processes.

In my POV, our bodies do have its own internal biological clocks, and going into time travelling would effect that, similiar to jet lag but far more serious.

I hope this clears it up on what I am trying to say.
 
Travelling to the past during a period that you previously lived (so that there are two "copies" of yourself) is dangerous because of self-telepathy. This is caused by two brains operating at the same frequencies, inducing thoughts in each other. The younger version holds thoughts from the future self, and vice versa. That is how I learned of this effect.
 
The "you" that travels into the past (yesterday) is not the same you that was there when yesterday was today. If you travel back to yesterday you will carry the knowledge you gained today with you without any loss of information. The version of you which in in the past, i.e. yesterday does not have that information so they cannot lose it. The problem arises when you give them the information, this causes new information to be made available to the you from the future from a different source than prior to your original discovery.

Time travel is itself is not the problem. We travel forward in time all the time and we can accelerate this process by flying or space travel. An astronaut who remains in the Space station circling the earth for a year will return to the earth 3 seconds further into the future than if he had stayed on earth and not made the voyage to the space station. The questions that comes up is, does this mean that the people he meets when he gets back are actually different versions of the people he would have seen had he stayed on earth.
 
justme,

Time travel is itself is not the problem. We travel forward in time all the time and we can accelerate this process by flying or space travel. An astronaut who remains in the Space station circling the earth for a year will return to the earth 3 seconds further into the future than if he had stayed on earth and not made the voyage to the space station. The questions that comes up is, does this mean that the people he meets when he gets back are actually different versions of the people he would have seen had he stayed on earth.
Click to expand...

Just a small correction, however. The astronaut would have to stay on the International Space Station for just over 287 years 8 months to have a relativistic effect of 3 seconds. (the orbital velocity with respect to the Earth is ~4.77 mps (17,240 mph). Without going through all the math, the Lorentz factor for that would be 1.000000000330440 or ~0.010427888 seconds per year. Divide 3 by 0.010425888 and you get ~287.7 yrs to have a relativistic effect of 3 seconds.

That being said, however, I understand your question. The astronauts acquire some relativistic effect while spending a year on the station in orbit. Not much, but it is quite measurable.

I guess the answer would be this:

I assume from your IP that you're posting from somewhere in the New York State area. When you wake up in the morning are your friends in Florida different versions of the people that you knew the day before?

Even if you, in New York, and your friends in Florida spent the entire day in bed - not moving - they are south of you on the globe. Because the diameter of the Earth is greater in Florida than it is in New York your friends there have a greater rotational velocity than you do. The spot that you each occupy turns through 360 degrees in 24 hours but they have to travel a greater distance. They are moving faster than you. Its not much - in fact its vanishingly small - but your friends in Florida age more slowly than you do in New York.

Are they the same people? The answer has to be yes absent any experiment that can be run to prove otherwise. Of course if you run the experiment and the answer happens to be that they are different people they will be changing every beat of the clock, not just once overnight.

The botom line here goes to the heart of the Special Theory of Relativity (STR). The theory states that all of us carry with us our own personal "clock" - a clock that is not synchronized with any other clock in the universe. The failure of both absolute simultaniety of events and absolute time are central axioms of STR.
 
"Just a small correction, however. The astronaut would have to stay on the International Space Station for just over 287 years 8 months to have a relativistic effect of 3 seconds. (the orbital velocity with respect to the Earth is ~4.77 mps (17,240 mph). Without going through all the math, the Lorentz factor for that would be 1.000000000330440 or ~0.010427888 seconds per year. Divide 3 by 0.010425888 and you get ~287.7 yrs to have a relativistic effect of 3 seconds."

Nice math! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now let's theoretically increase the orbital velocity, lets say perhaps at light warp speed which should be roughly 186,000 mph. We have to count in the geospatial matrix of earth, i.e. magnetism and the curvature of the planet itself. What would happen then? nothing? minute changes?... or will a person at that orbital velocity facing the curvature various magnetism of the earth may be travelling forward into time?

Lets also design and theoretically place two powerful magnets, but with opposite polarities facing eachother. They are held separately, as in not to attract/repulse eachother. Sending a refined laser beam within the thin boundary between those powerful magnets. From the first start of entry into the thin boundary travelling until the end of the opposite thin boundary. My own theory would say that this refined laser beam travelling at the speed of light, on a boundary between those two powerful magnets, would then have a appealing effect of the laser beam at the end. Or perhaps nothing at all occurs?

Is it possible that a thin strand of light, in a spectrum could be "magnetized"? or not? I have heard that light can hold data within a strand of it. Is that true?

I do know that everything we see, is based on light, of how we perceive things. Seeing something like this, if possible, in regards to the thin boundary laser beam travel, may allow us to see things we are not meant to see.

Maybe.. unless this theory is to be put to a test. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

your opinion?
 
Now let's theoretically increase the orbital velocity, lets say perhaps at light warp speed which should be roughly 186,000 mph.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume that you mean 186,000 mps, not mph (the speed of light in a vacuum). Correct?

The math in that case would be:

Let v = c (velocity equals speed of light)

Let c =1 (thus v = 1)

Lorentz Factor = 1 - sqrt (v^2/c^2) = 1 - sqrt (1^2/1^2) = 0

(We don't need to use 186,000 mps or 300,000 km/sec to get the same answer. "One" works just fine and is often used in relativistic math in cases where you aren't working out exact masses, energies, velocities, etc. in standard units like Joules, grams, etc. In this case we aren't concerned about units. We just want to know the Lorentz factor.)

But we know that this is a fallacious analysis because in the limit as v ---&gt; c the Lorentz Factor approaches infinity. The correct answer is that when v = c the Lorentz Factor is infinite. I won't go into the calculus but to arrive at the correct answer simple differential calculus is necessary.

In the exact example that you gave, however, we can't accomplish the task as defined (an orbital path). The speed of light exceeds Earth's escape velocity by approximately 179,000 mps. The escape velocity for one Earth mass is ~6.9 mps. Even that is yet another fallacious analysis. At the speed of light you are occupying the border that divides space and time. You would not be in orbit. You would simultaneously occupy every point in all spacetime in this universe. You would be both everywhere and nowhere in particular. In your future light cone you would be approaching every point in spacetime simultaneously at the speed of light. That's a lot of infinitely dense mass and infinitely high energy coming straight at your noggin. Not too bad a situation for photons and neutrinos but a very bad situation for things like human beings. Squish! Big Badda Boom!
 
Is it possible that a thin strand of light, in a spectrum could be "magnetized"? or not?
Click to expand...

Photons (light) mediate the electromagnetic force. They carry the EM force. This is the basis for E &amp; M (electricity and magnetism) Theory.

This theory is also the basis for one of the four papers that Einstein wrote in 1905, the Annus Mirabilis. The first paper was submitted in June - The Photoelectric Effect. He received his Nobel Prize in 1921 not for Special or General Relativity but for this quantum physics explanation of the photoelectric effect.
 
Lets also design and theoretically place two powerful magnets, but with opposite polarities facing eachother. They are held separately, as in not to attract/repulse eachother. Sending a refined laser beam within the thin boundary between those powerful magnets. From the first start of entry into the thin boundary travelling until the end of the opposite thin boundary. My own theory would say that this refined laser beam travelling at the speed of light, on a boundary between those two powerful magnets, would then have a appealing effect of the laser beam at the end. Or perhaps nothing at all occurs?
Click to expand...

Hmmm...

Well from your description of the gadget you could be describing a one stage "synchrotron" particle accelerator - but it won't accelerate light. Gang up the magnets into a series and you have a real particle accelerator. Make it a circular tube and you have a ring accelerator.

But it would also determine the polarization of your laser light depending on which direction the beam was deflected in the channel. It would also determine the spin of charged particles (spin "up" or "down") depending, again, on which direction the charged particles were deflected.

And if I'm not mistaken, passing a laser through a synchrotron filled with an "unknown" gas is how a mass spectrometer works to determine the elements present in the unknown.

If you're asking whether it would reveal something that hasn't been tested, probably not. The technique has been around since the 1940's. (I think that the synchrotron was invented in the late 1930's).
 
Hmm.

I also wonder why it is so important for scientists to study about atomic particles colliding in a accelerator. Why do they need to know about quarks? stuff like that? to find good applications to be used in electronics? Are they trying to find better ways to split the atom? to be converted into a doomsday weapon? Scientists are even studying blackholes and are creating miniblackholes in their labs?

like this one:
http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/history/AGS_history.asp

I dont understand why its so important to study stuff like that if they are not going to use the knowledge in anything useful for all of us to enjoy?

Any idea why?

Its giving me scary ideas that scientists are building things for a reason to study stuff, but are not giving anyone a true clear idea what they are doing in their labs. That is scary. Suppose a accident went off, blew the half the planet wide open? I got alot of imagination but I wouldnt put it pass a scientist who is into nuclear particle study, or any kind of study such as that.
 
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