I have a question......

Wushu18

Temporal Novice
My question is, how would one go along creating a wormhole, one that would be traversable? I have read a few books on black holes, some on womrholes, but not enough to really answer this question. I noticed that a few of the people on this forum know much about this subject, so I thought I would see if you could answer this. I know the basics, I understand that you would need a exotic material to keep it opened, I was wandering what else would you need, what would the formula, or the closest thing we have to it, be for this exotic material?

Thanks ahead everyone!
 
Hey, if your basing your ideas out of main stream pseudo-science than probably you're being confused with distortions and word play. To create the so called wormholes is as far fetched as trying to put out the sun with water.
 
Thank you for your responce. This is possible though, right? Even Kip Thorne say's that it is.From what I understand, the first thing to do is to get the Exotic energy/material. What I want to know is the physics for a wromhole and the exotic material, like the foruma behind them. Can someone help me with this? Darby seems to know about this subject a lot, any help Darby? Or anyone else? Any help is appreciated!
Jered
 
It is theoretically possible, but the type of wormhole that Kip Thorne and company are talking about is not practical and off track.
 
Okay, actually they made up a story and added some imagination to it using something that does not exist actually and that is exotic matter. Although it was brought up for the Dr. Carl Sagan movie - Contact - and the book of that name, Kip Thorne and the other scientists have really no idea if it would be achievable except with a tremendous amount of energy and way more knowledge. The scientist still keep doing this, just to extend the thinking about physics and imagine if it would be possible. To have math formulaes about something like that may be possible but it only be a theory and a guess in the end with no experimentation backing it up at all. In other words, it is all in the imagination of the mind thinking about physics way far into the future according to such a person like Dr. Michio Kaku and others who like to imagine sometimes during the grind of figuring out extremely difficult math equations and working those equations out. Even String Theory (or Superstring Theory) is a guess and even with that they had to call in other mathematicians to help out trying to come out with a math and try and attempt to start figuring it all out, to see if it even makes any sense in the end. They still think it does, and now M-Theory is taking over but again many equations and very difficult math equations have to be worked out because all of it is only an educated guess, just like coming up with the idea that if a certain form of matter existed in the Universe of which there is no proof for or has ever been found - exotic matter - it ends all up in the Sci-Fi realm of Science Fiction and not even near any thought of Science Fact.

But if you want to read papers where usually preliminary math equations are thought up - and as yet usually with no experiments to back them up -- again -- just thought processses of what may be - trying to think of perhaps all the possibilities, then you can perhaps look up some of those papers and read others at the place where some papers are posted. Not all papers are posted, because some are only in paid-subscription journels where you have to pay for the paper to read it. Call it Organizations of Scientists and their part of the world, just like many other ventures of work, where people come up with ideas - some bad and some that may even be somewhat good.

http://arxiv.org/

So exotic matter was just thought up to explain in an easy way, but only in the Sci-Fi Realm on how such a wormhole could be made -- however - exotic matter does not exist, but now Dark Matter and Dark Energy - they think they have found, and it always changes, but as of yet, a lot more thinking will have to be done on the matter. It is also a way to keep science interesting perhaps to more people than what some people want to give as Creedence to Science, since some people seem to hate science which enters into the debate about religion and science and all the gossip and rumors (true and false) at which some people want to control other people's thoughts about just about anything.

Take it all with a grain of salt as the saying goes -- don't get too hung up about any of it. It is just work that they do and imagining sometimes that they do. It is like daydreaming about having a new fancy home or something of that nature in the end. Until it becomes reality, it is in the realm of imagination whether it is remotely even beginning to be true or not.

Some interesting stuff may be here also, if you like to read about it:
http://www.physorg.com/
 
Better than that The Natural Vortices that don´t need exotic materials to remain open...

And remember that here the Tau 9 Treaty ban these experiments...until 2013 to get Timeline 1.83 instead of Timeline 2.0 the timeline you may come from...

See the post at 04/12/08 07:46 AM for more info at this link...


Link to TTI :oops:
 
You want to create a wormhole? For gawds's sake why?


THEORY:

So how do you create a wormhole? Well there are a number of ways.

It has been suggested that wormholes occur naturally, but only on very small scales. Normally on our macroscopically scales, space time is flat(if something is not bending it). But if you zoom in on it through the particle level and down to something called the Planck length(10-33cm) space time will get more and more severely warped and not smooth at all any more. So at this level where space time warps naturally and in a chaotic fashion, you should be able to find tiny natural wormholes. And then it would be possible to take one of them and enlarge it so that we could travel through.

Another possibility is to bend space time our self, already on macroscopically scales. Then move this little pocket which we just created to the place were we want to go, tear a hole into the space time in our pocket and the space time at the place we wanted to go to, and then "sew" the two rips together to create a tunnel(the worm hole). The problem is that the ripping part would create a singularity, and singularities are very nasty things, which have a tendency to first stretch people into spaghetti and then crush them into very small things. So we don't want a singularity but is there a way to create a wormhole without a singularity? Yes there is, the problem being that at the moment it is being created, time has to be distorted in all reference frames. Which means that at that particular moment you would be able to travel both forward and backward in time. So it's not certain that this works.

First lets see what happen to a body which is accelerated.

According to relativity, acceleration makes time slow down. But in the same theory every observation measures their own time as going at a normal rate. So if we have two observers with the extremely personal names A and B. Then A stays still while B accelerates up to close the speed of light. Now because of the acceleration, Bs time has to slow down, but at the same time he can't notice any slowing of time. So instead as seen from As point of view(reference frame) Bs time does slow down and he starts to move slower. But as seen frome Bs reference fram As time speed up instead! And that 'time speed up' around B compensates for thé fact that he sees his own time as going at a normal rate, if things speed up around him it is just as if he slowed down himself. The important thing is that both their times are "in the smae proportions" to each others, which means that in both reference frames A's time does go faster then B's.

Now we'll see the strange way in which time is connected though a wormhole.
A and B both have one mouth of the worm hole each. Then B speeds away at close the speed of light. Now he can either look back and directly observe A or he can observe A through his wormhole. If he looks back he sees A moving away from him, and so he knows that the are in different reference frames and he also notice that As time moves faster. But if he looks through the wormhole he get's one, stable view of A. A doesn't move away from him, it is just af if B himself was standing right beside him. At first glance this might look like it's just a trick, but not according to relativity. According to relativity, if two things doesn't move relative to one another and if none of them exist in an externally applied gravitational field, then they are in the same reference frame. So this leads to a strange observation; through the worm hole A and B is in the same reference frame but otherwise they're in different!

So now if A goes through his mouth of the wormhole he then comes out into Bs mouth, and Bs reference frame where time has been speeding up around him due to acceleration so then A has moved forward in time. But then if B goes through his mouth of the wormhole he'll come out in As reference frame, and in that frame time was moving normal (that is, slower then at B) and so B will have travelled back in time.

Now, there were some problems of course. What if a beam of radiation travelled from the still standing mouth to the moving one and into it, then it would travelled back into time and exited the still standing mouth just at the same time it originally started to move toward the moving mouth. Then it would meet up with itself and create a beam which where twice as strong and then start to move toward the moving mouth again, travel back into time, meet up with itself and the beam would get stronger, and so on. So an infinitely strong radiation beam would emerge and this beam would be enough to collapse the wormhole.

A beam normally travels in a straight path through space. But at a wormhole the space is warped which means that the straight lines bend. Therefore the wormhole would spread the beam out, making it impossible for it to add up with itself and create a infinitely strong beam.

But this isn't the end of the story. Another kind of radiation called electromagnetic quantum vacuum fluctuations, and those beams when studied, it was found that they don't get spread out. Or more precisely, they first get spread out like the radiation above. But later they gather together all by them self to create the original beam and it goes through the wormhole and start to pile up on itself to create a beam that will collapse the wormhole. So the gravitational effect couldn't save us here, but it was also found that the intensity of the beam behaved in such a way that, first its intensity raised to very high levels but then the intensity died out. This created a radiation peak. And it was found that the time span when the energy levels got high enough to collapse a wormhole, happened within a time span of 10-43 seconds, the Planck time. And the Planck time represents such a tiny time interval that time doesn't have any specific direction, actions taking place under this time doesn't exist. Therefore the dangerous peak disappears and the energy never gets so high as to collapse the wormhole.

There was of course another problem. Time is something relative, you can't just say 10-43 seconds, you have to define in what reference frame. It had been thought that 10-43s from the reference frame of someone at rest in the wormhole . But instead it should be 10-43s as seen from the beam of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum fluctuations. So the radiation beam could only be keept weak if the dangerous peak of energy happened in the time span of 10-43s from the radiations point of view. But a time span of 10-43s in the radiations reference frame looks like a time span of 10-95s from the reference frame of someone inside the wormhole which the previous calculations where based of. So then the time span would be to short to be able to cut of the radiation energy before it became too high.

But nothing is certain. 10-95s might very well be enough to cut of the energy in time. In order to know for sure we need better understanding of something called quantum gravity, which we don't. But right now it seems to point toward a wormhole collapse.

Quantum Gravity will be discussed sometimes in the future. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

anyone else have any theories? hehe /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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