Evidence That Someone Had Time Traveled!!!!

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The Bible The Quran And Science by Maurice Bucaille.pp167-168.

How could people 14 hundered years ago Know this:-

1. On the expansion of the universe: The following verse of the Quran(sura 51, verse 47) where God is speaking, can be compared with modern ideas:
" The heaven, We have built it with power. Verly. We are expanding it." ie to make wider, more spacious, to extend, to expand.

2. On the conquest of space:
(a) Sura 55, verse 33:
" O assembly of Jinns and Men, if you can penetrate regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! you will not penetrate them save with a power."
There can be no doubt that this verse indicates the possibility men will one day achieve what we today call (perhaps rather improperly) 'the conquest of space'. Note exploration of Heavens and also the depths of earth.

(b) sura 15,(verses 14 and 15). God is speaking of the unbelievers in Makka:
"Even if We opened unto them a gate to Heaven and they were to continue ascending therein, they would say: our sight is confused as in drunkenness. Nay, we are people bewitched."
The above expresses astonishment at a remarkable spectacle, different from anything man could imagine. Of a spectacle the unbelievers in Makka will never see in their time. the event will however be seen by others ie our time. Indeed this is what we seem to feel today, after traveling long distances by plane. And this is exactly how astroauts have experienced this remarkable adventure since the first human spaceflight around the world in 1961.

Here again, it is difficult not to be impressed, when comparing the text of the Qur'an to the data of modern science, by statements that simply cannot be ascribed to the thought of a man who lived more than fourteen centuaries ago.

3. The Sequence of Day and Night: -sura 31, verse 29:
"Hast thou not seen how God merges the night into day and merges the day into night."
-sura 39, verse 5:
"...He coils the night upon the day and He coils the day upon the night."
It is easy for the human understanding to grasp these notions nowerdays because we have the idea of the Sun's (relative) immobility and the Earth's rotation. This process of perpetual coiling, including the interpretation of one sector by another is expressed in the Qur'an just as if the concept of the Earth's roundness had already been conceived at the time-which was OBVIOUSLY not the case.

I must end the message here, but, believe me there is more..........than this. Was it realy God that was speaking or someone from the future who had time travelled and given them all this information.
 
Re:Evidence (?) That Someone Had Time Traveled!!!

I can't speak about the Quran, I never read it. But I have read most of the Holy Bible. There are many passages that speak about many things that will "come to pass". Since the Bible was inspired by God, then we must agree that these "predictions" are not of man, but of God. Soooo.... Just because we read a passage in any literary work that speaks of supernatural knowledge, we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that someone must have traveled through time in order for such things to be known. Why not just be satisfied that God thought those things up?
 
Re:Re:Evidence (?) That Someone Had Time Traveled!!!

Truth has no bearing on time. Spirituallity knows all things past present and future for they are only illusions. There is only one time...the present. These devine predictions prove only that the knowledge, Truth, and science all have a common ground, and that the understanding on science helps us to better grasp the consept and mind set of a Creator who is no doubt a scientist as well.
...If Mathematics is the language of Physics, then Physics is the language of God...
A creator would not feebly and blindly place all of creation with a lose vision of compulsive interests. That is the way of man. God followed a single universal theme, which I believe he had to for the perfect rhythm of the universe to live with a conscience of it's own. God did not bend science, he used it. And, so are we learning to as well.
 
Re: Evidence of someone actually using his own eyes and brain!

In the 1580s Giordano Bruno maintained that just as men regard the earth as the central point of the universe, about which everything revolves, so too beings on other worlds will believe that they are the focal point of their universe. He also maintained that the stars and planets were not just points of lights that go twinkle in the night and revolve around the sun in various predictable ways, as his contemporary Galileo believed. Instead he saw the stars as suns which were very far away, and he saw the planets as worlds unto themselves. He furthermore maintained that the stars (suns) had planets revolving around them, very much like they do in our own solar system...and that on a certain number of these extrasolar planets intelligent being lived.

Giordano Bruno was the first human being to logically posit any of the above, which correctly describes the basic structure and composition of the universe, which he believed was infinite rather than earth or sun-centered. Galileo later laughed off Bruno's cosmological insights as wild and unprovable.

How did he arrive at these revelations? By using his eyes and brain! By not buying into either the scientific or theological view.
 
Re:Re: BRUNO NOT THE FIRST, SORRY TO SAY !!!!!!!

What you are saying does not come as a surprise to me. But I am sorry to say that your time factor is wrong. 1580 is laughable when comparing it with the Qu'ran , which was written 14 centuaries ago.

I wonder where Bruno got his information from then? Read this:

From just this Verse, and there are many like it in the Qu'ran, it is possible to conclude that the text clearly indicates the existence of more than one single Earth, ie there are others like it:

Verse 12 of sura 65 says this-
'God is the One Who created seven heavens and of the earth a similar number'.

Without going into detail of structure and composition, what you think Bruno had thought up was already written in the Qu'ran centuaries before his time.IE:-(and Im sorry to say that they all agree with modern scientific facts(and understanding), but the Qu'ran has more to say

(1) Existence of six periods for the Creation in general.
(2) Interlocking of stages in the Creation of the Heavens and the Earth.
(3) Creation of the Universe out of an initially unique mass forming a block that subsequently split up. (Refering to process of fusion and subsequent separation starting from a celestial'smoke'(meaning the predominently gaseous state of the early stage of the Universe).(verse 9 to 12, sura 41).
(4) Plurality of the Heavens and the Earths.
(5) Existence of an intermediary creation 'between the Heavens and the Earth'.

Sura 37, verse 6, we see the following:

"We have indeed adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the planets."

Note this sentence has more than one meaning(this is why the Qu'ran is so unique and you can see just from this verse alone that a human could not have come up with such meaning in such a small comment:

1. the planets as ONE (note the 'an'). IE all fixed to their own orbits.
2. a solar system within the same heaven.
3. and we know this heaven has a sun and a earth.
4. here the Qu'ran is talking about the lower heaven only (and what is in it).

So looking at sura 12 above again, we can see that the Qu'ran states that there are many heavens. LIKE THE LOWER ONE!!!!!!!!

AND WHOM TOUGHT BRUNO THIS?????

(Read the Qu'ran by God and The Bible The Qur'an And Science by Maurice Bucaille, not some playgerist(BRUNO).
 
Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong.

The Qu'ran doesn't say anything of the kind. Seven "earths" is far too small a number for Bruno. Bruno said that since God and the universe are infinite there are an infinite number of suns and an infinite number of planets. Bruno's concept of the solar system was derived or extrapolated from the Copernican theory that the planets revolve around the sun -- and not the other way around. Bruno was the first to realize that the stars are SUNS and that therefore each star is the heart of it's own solar system. This is an accurate charcterization of the way the universe really is; this is the basic structure of the obervable universe. The Qu'ran's seven heavens and seven earths is but a mystical theology based purely on religious fiat. It is not the way the universe really is, any more than is the Christian fiat that the earth is the center of a "celestial sphere."

Bruno did not say that the other planets were "between the heavens and the earth", he said they were completely independent of the earth and the sun. They were valid in their own right! These extrasolar planets had nothing to do with the Earth nor did he refer to them as "Earths." They were WORLDS and thus independent and valid in their own right! And you know what, he was right!

Bruno used only his eyes and brain to realize the true awesomeness of the universe (which was God). He eschewed religious fiat no matter whose it was, because this was based on human egocentricity and completely arbitrary. He would say that the number (seven) was merely agreed upon by certain High Councils (i.e. by Man!)and thus were complete nonsense. And you know what, he was right about that, too.
 
Hi Ali

God also said to Adam & Eve in Genesis that they should multiply & REPLENISH the earth, REPLENISH, thats interesting, Because to me that means to replace, REPLACE/REPLENISH what, Were Adam & Eve to REPLENISH the human race, If so, What happened to it so that it needed replenishing..........The Bible has alot of stories that can be read in many different ways, Its VERY MUCH open to interpretation isnt it.

Oh well, thats my 20 cents worth on the bible theme.....

Bye
Rob
 
Ok, fine.

At least you are speaking in a lucid manner here that shows you MAY actually have something to say after all.

Whether I agree with your analysis here or not is totally beside the point. At least your hemp plant soap box and health care rantings are absent in this disertation which shows promise since your qualifications to speak to either of those topics have proven to be clearly questionable to say the very least.

I'm beginning to think that "ALI" is not really one single person since this post above presents a style and manner that is contradictory to the immature nonsense offered below at least in a linguistic manner. However many voices are contributing to the "ALI" tag here, y'all need to at least get your presentation concepts straight.

Whoever you people are, at least come to the agreement that the person who presented the above scenario is a few mentally proficient cuts above the one who railed against the health care industry in absolutely ignorant uninformed tirades below.

If you wanna talk Nostradamus, I'm not qualified. We had a guy here earlier called "Nolo Contedere" who was really up on that stuff.

If, however, you wanna expouse the fundamentalism of Islam, Christianity, or Judaism we can talk.

I don't really see the petty differences that exist among those of fundamentalist Islamic, Christian or Judaistic persuasions as being relevant to the 21st century human race as a whole.

Why should those of us who have long since risen above the medieval mythology of religious fundamentalistic ANYTHING continue to put any stock into what these people have to say beyond their expressed desires to "blow up" something as a gesture to Allah, or Jesus, or whoever, in their efforts to further some long since forgotten cause or misguidedly indoctrinated goal?

These are the same people who used to burn "witches", imprisoned Galleleo, and continue to this day to insist that evolution doesn't exist. As if I'm supposed to put some credibility into their words based on past behaviour.

Maybe there truly IS a God, but the people presenting themselves as diciples of such these days are in the same catagory as Conestoga Wagon Snake Oil Hucksters of yesteryear.

The Koran, the Talmud and the Bible were written by MEN who professed to be inspired by some GOD that is as yet unproven or even clearly defined. The believers in the man-made "religions" that have arisen from these ancient texts of course claim that it was the hand of GOD Himself that wrote down these words.

Bullshit!

The followers of the aforementioned religions have done nothing for the past several hundred years except to prove what hypocrites and liars they are.

So...

Even tho I have an affinity for the style of your most recent writing here, how about if you actually say something that comes from your heart, your mind and your individualism, instead of your indoctrination?

Prove to me you can think for yourself, OK?

Show me who this person "ALI" (as presented here) really is.

i.e. - Can the crap and cut to the chase.

Just do it!
 
Re:Re:Re: BRUNO NOT THE FIRST, SORRY TO SAY !!!!!!!

That's "plagarist" not "Playgarist", but your misnomer here says a lot.

OK, so the "Qu'ran" or "Koran" (as it is referred to in western society) is "14 centuries" old.

So what?

Christian religions claim their text is 20 centuries old, but has a history in Judeaism. ("New" Testament vs. old.)

Judeaism claims it's text, The Talmud, is 60 centuries old. (The Christian "Old" Testament.)

The MORAL lessons in each are worthy of any society (if the people would but PRACTICE them), but when it comes to Science, none of them know Jack.

How could they?

They actually believed lightning was a punishment from God.

Kewl!

Stupid,,,,,,

but Kewl nonetheless.

Here....,

have some more rope,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( )

Hang yourself further.
 
Re:Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong.

Right On!

If only religious people could somehow realize that by organizing spiritual beliefs into what we call "religion", they have actually set up a structure in which the petty squabling that occurs in religion itself is totally destructive to the spirituality we'd all like to achieve.

Spirituality. The further you define it, the more you lose it.

The tougher the rules, the easier the failure.
 
Re:Re:Evidence (?) That Someone Had Time Traveled!!!

I'll buy into your "time" analysis with a ferver.

But....

Which "God" are we talking about here that controls and predetermines what it is you are talking about?

Aren't you contradicting yourself on that issue?

Thanx,

Peace.
 
Re:Re:Re:Re:Understand what words mean , it takes time!!!

It is obvious LEE you are not a scientist. The meanings of such books need scientists to understand them. The Qu'ran states this. But not just scientists.

-sura 45, verse 13:
"For you (God) subjected all that is in the heavens and on earth, all from Him. Behold! In that are signs for people who reflect."

AND

-sura 6, verse 97: "....We have detailed the signs for people who know."

The subject of lightning being a punishment? Maybe!! But you should'nt take lightning for granted. This is what the Qu'ran says about it:

-sura 13, verses 12-13 and from sura 24, verse 43 :
"(God) is the one Who shows you the lightning, with fear and covetousness."

Here god is not only saying that lightning is to be feared but also telling you of its benefit. Let us just say that if it rained now it would be a blessing to some. But what if it rained for weeks on end , what would happen?. Ponder on this for a moment!!

Now let us say it didnt just rain but also hailed for weeks with no end, what will happen? I could just imagine!! But let me help you. PUNISHMENT!!!!!(Not only financial but morral, in some cases death).

Now then, if you ask a scientist what lightning was he would tell you- it is electricity!!!!! Should electricity be feared? Maybe!! The subject of covetousness in the statement above, shows you the account of benefit lightning(or electricity) represents.

I hope I have helped you understand the meaning of knowing and reflecting. And helped you understand a little bit on the subject of science.

Hey read these two books they may also help you.
The Holly Qu'ran and The Bible The Qur'an And Science(by Maurice Bucaille).
 
Re:Re:Those who do not know how to understand!!!!

Let me tell you something , what you see, hear, taste, feel, or read should never be taken for granted.!!

What you make of your surroundings and your self is none of my buisness, but all that goes on in the universe was created!!

But to understand, the creator has left signs for those whom are willing to search. And to help those whom are disbelievers.

But there are those whom dont know how to understand. And that is also a problem we must face. But god has given some the obillity to see more than others, and these people are the ones whom write , then leaving it for the teachers to teach.

So to understand what is right , who to beleive and where to read you will need a starting point, at least.

Profits and Messengers were they not signs?????
 
Re:Re:Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong.

Right on, Lee!

It's so sad that people are sooooo "religious"! Religion is the main cause of so many wars and "hate" crimes. I am not religious at all.... I have a personal relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ. It is NOT a religion -- it is a way of life! There is a huge difference!

...And God has blessed me with an insatiable appetite for the knowledge of science. Thank you, Jesus!!!
 
Re:Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong, about BRUNO!!

Yes you are right when you say that people thought in those days prior to Copernicus that the sun revolved around the planets. But loe and be hold the concept cannot be found anywhere in the Qur'an.
But what the Qur'an did talk about was:

1. the concepts of the Suns and Moon orbits:

-sura 36, verse 40: "...Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

These concepts were later defended by the Pythagoreans, but the Pythagoreans also defened the theory where by the sun was fixed in space(and made the sun the centre of the Earth), but again no where is it adopted by the muslims who lived in that time. If it had been adopted it would nodoubt be in the Qur'an.

However, the orbital movement of the sun , the demonstration of the existence of this concept and details of this is one of the achievements of modern astronomy. And that person who varified what the Qur'an had referred to fourteen centuries ago was Shapley, 1917.

2. The number 7 in ancient times was used not only by the Qur'an, but also by the Greeks and Romans, and was the reference to the concept of 'many'. IE an undifined idea of plurality.

3. The Terms of 'Worlds', 'Heavens', and 'Earths', 'and others like them'- is in no way meaning- the exact same. So make sure you know what the word 'like' means before you come to any conclusion.

4. And what makes you think the Qur'an is talking only of the planets, when refering to the statement of '..between the heavens and the earth'. What the Qur'an is actually refering to is the discovery of those bridges of material present outside organized astronomic systems. Ie speaking of all the 'remains', 'smoke' and or 'dust'(like planets, astroids etc)or refered to as intersellar galactic material. These can reflect the light received be other stars. And the existence of 'bridges' ie dark nebulae(gases) which is less dense, know for its tendency to interfere with photometric measurements in astronomy. Here you can see the interdependence which you think Bruno was the first to grasp. NOT!!!
 
Re:Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong, about BRUNO!!

Yes you are right when you say that people thought in those days prior to Copernicus that the sun revolved around the planets. But loe and be hold the concept cannot be found anywhere in the Qur'an.
But what the Qur'an did talk about was:

1. the concepts of the Suns and Moon orbits:

-sura 36, verse 40: "...Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion."

These concepts were later defended by the Pythagoreans, but the Pythagoreans also defened the theory where by the sun was fixed in space(and made the sun the centre of the Earth), but again no where is it adopted by the muslims who lived in that time. If it had been adopted it would nodoubt be in the Qur'an.

However, the orbital movement of the sun , the demonstration of the existence of this concept and details of this is one of the achievements of modern astronomy. And that person who varified what the Qur'an had referred to fourteen centuries ago was Shapley, 1917.

2. The number 7 in ancient times was used not only by the Qur'an, but also by the Greeks and Romans, and was the reference to the concept of 'many'. IE an undifined idea of plurality.

3. The Terms of 'Worlds', 'Heavens', and 'Earths', 'and others like them'- is in no way meaning- the exact same. So make sure you know what the word 'like' means before you come to any conclusion.

4. And what makes you think the Qur'an is talking only of the planets, when refering to the statement of '..between the heavens and the earth'. What the Qur'an is actually refering to is the discovery of those bridges of material present outside organized astronomic systems. Ie speaking of all the 'remains', 'smoke' and or 'dust'(like planets, astroids etc)or refered to as intersellar galactic material. These can reflect the light received be other stars. And the existence of 'bridges' ie dark nebulae(gases) which is less dense, know for its tendency to interfere with photometric measurements in astronomy. Here you can see the interdependence which you think Bruno was the first to grasp. NOT!!!
 
I think that we've met.

Weren't you the strange little fella who unsuccessfully tried to convert me at Victoria station a few weeks back?

You weren't having much luck that day.

Things don't appear to be looking up.
 
Re:Re:Re: Sorry, but you\'re quite wrong, about BRUNO!!

Where in the Qu'ran does it say that the stars are suns? A simple question. Where does it say that planets (i.e. worlds) revolve around stars or that intelligent extraterrestrials live and evolve on these planets?

If the Qu'ran does speak of these astronomical bodies in these terms, I for one won't be too surprised since astronomy and mathematics of the middle eatern cultures was more advanced in many ways than that of the Western cultures. When I make the generalization that Bruno was "the first" I really mean that he was the first in the Western world. I really can't or shouldn't speak for any other earthly "worlds" (middle east, far east, Aztec, Mayan etc.).
 
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