calling all scientists!
- Thread starter ruthless
- Start date
Just a guess here, but the glove probably compresses, causing the fist to decelerate a little slower than without the glove. Thus, it should reduce the impact a little. Also, the glove adds surface area to the fist, reducing the pressure applied to the other person. Remember that we feel pressure, not force.
Darby
Epochal Historian
ruthless,
We'll ignore vectors here because it makes the answer a bit complicated. Suffice it to say that the angle at which the blow is delivered obviously makes a big difference. Here we'll assume that the blow is directly head-on. Pow!
The momentum of the bare hand at impact is given by:
P = mv^2
The total momentum of the gloved hand will be greater than the bare hand at impact by:
P = (m(0) + delta m(g)) ( v(0) + delta v(g) )^2
where
m(0) is the bare handed mass
delta m(g) is the change of mass when the glove (and wraps) are added
v(0) is the velocity of the bare fist and
delta v(g) is the change in velocity when the glove is added.
The bare hand will likely have more velocity so its possible that it can have equal or greater momentum than a gloved hand. But if we treat the two scenarios as having equal velocities then we have:
Energy transferred to the body of the other boxer is very different between a gloved hand and a bare hand.
First, the gloved hand transmits the energy over a much larger surface. The greater damage is caused by a focused impact that delivers the energy through the smallest surface area possible, e.g. a boxer strikes the other boxer on the forehead with a 50 fps blow from a gloved hand weighing ~30 oz versus the same boxer being struck in the forehead by a 1 oz steel pellet traveling at 50 fps. Which situation is most likely to result in serious brain trauma or death?
Second, the glove is very pliable as compared to the bare fist. Not only is the energy delivered over a larger area it is delivered over a longer period of time. As the glove compresses it is transferring energy to the other boxer. The bare hand is a semi rigid surface. It delivers the energy very quickly by comparison. You might recall Rainman and me discussing elastic vs. inelastic collissions a few months ago. This is a similar situation.
The bare hand has less mass but it is more efficient at delivering energy over a smaller surface and over a shorter period of time. Bare hand wins.
We'll ignore vectors here because it makes the answer a bit complicated. Suffice it to say that the angle at which the blow is delivered obviously makes a big difference. Here we'll assume that the blow is directly head-on. Pow!
The momentum of the bare hand at impact is given by:
P = mv^2
The total momentum of the gloved hand will be greater than the bare hand at impact by:
P = (m(0) + delta m(g)) ( v(0) + delta v(g) )^2
where
m(0) is the bare handed mass
delta m(g) is the change of mass when the glove (and wraps) are added
v(0) is the velocity of the bare fist and
delta v(g) is the change in velocity when the glove is added.
The bare hand will likely have more velocity so its possible that it can have equal or greater momentum than a gloved hand. But if we treat the two scenarios as having equal velocities then we have:
Energy transferred to the body of the other boxer is very different between a gloved hand and a bare hand.
First, the gloved hand transmits the energy over a much larger surface. The greater damage is caused by a focused impact that delivers the energy through the smallest surface area possible, e.g. a boxer strikes the other boxer on the forehead with a 50 fps blow from a gloved hand weighing ~30 oz versus the same boxer being struck in the forehead by a 1 oz steel pellet traveling at 50 fps. Which situation is most likely to result in serious brain trauma or death?
Second, the glove is very pliable as compared to the bare fist. Not only is the energy delivered over a larger area it is delivered over a longer period of time. As the glove compresses it is transferring energy to the other boxer. The bare hand is a semi rigid surface. It delivers the energy very quickly by comparison. You might recall Rainman and me discussing elastic vs. inelastic collissions a few months ago. This is a similar situation.
The bare hand has less mass but it is more efficient at delivering energy over a smaller surface and over a shorter period of time. Bare hand wins.
Darby,
This is incorrect, though I'm sure it was just a careless mistake. The correct formula is:
momentum:
p = mv
kinetic energy:
E = .5 mv^2
As for the rest, remember the impulse-momentum equation:
F dt = m dv
and pressure:
P = F / A
P = m dv / (A dt)
Adding a glove increases both A and dt, as was previously stated, while marginally increasing m & decreasing dv. Therefore, the pressure P applied to the other person tends to decrease.
This is incorrect, though I'm sure it was just a careless mistake. The correct formula is:
momentum:
p = mv
kinetic energy:
E = .5 mv^2
As for the rest, remember the impulse-momentum equation:
F dt = m dv
and pressure:
P = F / A
P = m dv / (A dt)
Adding a glove increases both A and dt, as was previously stated, while marginally increasing m & decreasing dv. Therefore, the pressure P applied to the other person tends to decrease.
RainmanTime
Super Moderator
Now THIS is Real Science! I'm glad all of you gents contributed to this thread.
TimeLord, your knowledge of science and physics is very much a welcome addition to this forum! And I'd bet Darby and ruthless feel the same way.
RMT
TimeLord, your knowledge of science and physics is very much a welcome addition to this forum! And I'd bet Darby and ruthless feel the same way.
RMT
ruthless
Rift Surfer
yeah, this stuff is iteresting to me.
so bare hand wins. something else i was thinking about was for how long does fist win? for instance, if you fight a 5 round fight, would it be best to go barehanded, or with gloves on? considering the chance of bone breakage and swelling, considering those chances, i'd be curious what math has to say. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
so bare hand wins. something else i was thinking about was for how long does fist win? for instance, if you fight a 5 round fight, would it be best to go barehanded, or with gloves on? considering the chance of bone breakage and swelling, considering those chances, i'd be curious what math has to say. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
reactor1967
Quantum Scribe
I would say he hits harder without the glove because the glove adds little to the strength and the glove absorbs some of the impact of the blow like a air bag in a car does but without the glove the hard surface of the fist does not cushin the blow and causes more damage. And I know from personal experiance(not to go into the story). A long time a go I boxed with gloves against a guy then we took them off and went fist to fist. That was in my younger years. Thanks, Reactor
TheCigSmokingMan
Rift Surfer
You should consider the increased mass of the boxing glove and the increased weight versus a bare fist...
TheCigMan
TheCigMan
ruthless
Rift Surfer
well, when it comes down to it, the bare fist may be the stronger weapon, but for some strange reason, gloved fists actually have the most knockouts. i think it is mainly because the bare hand deforms, bends and breaks and the glove absorbs most of the impact and the hand does not deform as much.
watching fight science, i found out that a right hook can have as much as 2000 pounds of force behind it. so i am guessing that power isnt the deciding factor in a knockout. the deciding factor is if your hand stays together. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
watching fight science, i found out that a right hook can have as much as 2000 pounds of force behind it. so i am guessing that power isnt the deciding factor in a knockout. the deciding factor is if your hand stays together. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif