another question about TT
- Thread starter ruthless
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Darby
Epochal Historian
ruthless,
To a certain degree yes - we can create a virtual universe. Physicists do that constantly through math and through computer models.
There are many problems involved with modeling the universe accurately so that it evolves exactly as our universe has evolved. Here are some examples of the problems.
One concept involves observability. We can only observe so much of the universe even with the most powerful telescopes. There are areas of the universe so far away that even though the light from those areas of space have been traveling toward Earth for ~18-20 billion years it hasn't arrived here. We can only guess at what went on there. Its pretty hard to figure that into the model. And we have no idea what is going on "now" even in our own galaxy because the light that shines on us from the nearest star, other than Sol, is 4 years old.
Another problem involves "The Three Body Problem". We can model a universe that only has one particle in it. That particle does precisely everything that we expect it to do. We can add a second particle to that universe and still model what goes on quite well. But when we add a third particle their interactions become very complex. With great difficulty we can model very accurately what occurs if we don't ask the model to look very far into the future. Once we get to ten particles it's virtually impossible to sort them out, tell one from another and predict anything specific about what an individual particle is going to do. A glass of water has about 10^24 subatomic particles (protons, neutrons and electrons). That's 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 - an incredibly huge number. We can use the principles of thermodynamics to make predictions about the glass of water in general but there's absolutely no way to say anything specific about a single atom of water let alone the protons, neutrons and electrons that make up the atom. Extend that idea to the entire universe of 10^99 particles (1 followed by 99 zeros) and modeling what will occur at any time by asking the model to precisely recreate our universe in detail is impossible.
A third problem involves our knowledge of physics. We know an awful lot about how the laws of physics work. But we don't know everything and some of what we know only describes what happens and not what causes it to happen in detail. Because our knowledge is incomplete any model that we create will be incomplete to some degree.
Thus modeling the entire universe can be done using the laws of physics as we currently understand them but there's no guarantee that the universe that evolves in the model would look anything like the universe that we know - even though the laws of physics would be the same.
The issue of time traveling in the virtual universe goes to the third problem. We can force the issue in the model and plug in "laws" that allow time travel. But in the real world we don't know enough about the underlying physics to be able to state that time travel back in time is even allowed. We have certain solutions to general relativity that say that under very unusual circumstances it is possible. But those same solutions also say that the universe as we know it today isn't the same sort of universe described in the solution.
To a certain degree yes - we can create a virtual universe. Physicists do that constantly through math and through computer models.
There are many problems involved with modeling the universe accurately so that it evolves exactly as our universe has evolved. Here are some examples of the problems.
One concept involves observability. We can only observe so much of the universe even with the most powerful telescopes. There are areas of the universe so far away that even though the light from those areas of space have been traveling toward Earth for ~18-20 billion years it hasn't arrived here. We can only guess at what went on there. Its pretty hard to figure that into the model. And we have no idea what is going on "now" even in our own galaxy because the light that shines on us from the nearest star, other than Sol, is 4 years old.
Another problem involves "The Three Body Problem". We can model a universe that only has one particle in it. That particle does precisely everything that we expect it to do. We can add a second particle to that universe and still model what goes on quite well. But when we add a third particle their interactions become very complex. With great difficulty we can model very accurately what occurs if we don't ask the model to look very far into the future. Once we get to ten particles it's virtually impossible to sort them out, tell one from another and predict anything specific about what an individual particle is going to do. A glass of water has about 10^24 subatomic particles (protons, neutrons and electrons). That's 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 - an incredibly huge number. We can use the principles of thermodynamics to make predictions about the glass of water in general but there's absolutely no way to say anything specific about a single atom of water let alone the protons, neutrons and electrons that make up the atom. Extend that idea to the entire universe of 10^99 particles (1 followed by 99 zeros) and modeling what will occur at any time by asking the model to precisely recreate our universe in detail is impossible.
A third problem involves our knowledge of physics. We know an awful lot about how the laws of physics work. But we don't know everything and some of what we know only describes what happens and not what causes it to happen in detail. Because our knowledge is incomplete any model that we create will be incomplete to some degree.
Thus modeling the entire universe can be done using the laws of physics as we currently understand them but there's no guarantee that the universe that evolves in the model would look anything like the universe that we know - even though the laws of physics would be the same.
The issue of time traveling in the virtual universe goes to the third problem. We can force the issue in the model and plug in "laws" that allow time travel. But in the real world we don't know enough about the underlying physics to be able to state that time travel back in time is even allowed. We have certain solutions to general relativity that say that under very unusual circumstances it is possible. But those same solutions also say that the universe as we know it today isn't the same sort of universe described in the solution.
ruthless
Rift Surfer
well,theres something i didnt know. i knew humans couldnt comprehend the universe in a whole, but i thought a pc might be able to. oh well, maybe technicalogical advances will help with that. but it will probably still be a gigantic amount of data, so i dont know how much help thatll be.
and i thought everything was known about physics. very interesting.
i think maybe i should start studying alot about alot, as there has to be something.
if i can hack my psp,why cant hack the friggin time-space continuum! grrr!!
and i thought everything was known about physics. very interesting.
i think maybe i should start studying alot about alot, as there has to be something.
if i can hack my psp,why cant hack the friggin time-space continuum! grrr!!
Packerbacker
Quantum Scribe
I think your idea is reaching a bit far at the moment, but it has promise.
The key, here is that you don't have to recreate the actual universe: You only have to rcreate the human conception of it.If you send a photo of yourself to someone else via email,you are only sending an image, which is only a hundred thousand K's (or whatever).
When people talk about the universe , they imagine they are talking about the real universe,
but they are only talking about (accessing)a map in their heads. That part of the universe is all you have to recreate.
Secondly, you don't have to recreate it in a complete totality. Basically, we are looking at, and concentrating on only one thing at a time.So it's like a web site where you click on links that take you to a different page.
Example: when you look at the night sky, you don't see all of the stars or all of space.To see more than we can with the unaided eye, we go to a telescope. But, what we see through the telescope is like a different web page.
So it would seem to be possible to create the ultimate reality game in which the so-called universe need have no direct relationship to the actual universe.This probably could be done.
O.K. Are you ready for this? What we know as life is a virtual reality.
Think about it. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The key, here is that you don't have to recreate the actual universe: You only have to rcreate the human conception of it.If you send a photo of yourself to someone else via email,you are only sending an image, which is only a hundred thousand K's (or whatever).
When people talk about the universe , they imagine they are talking about the real universe,
but they are only talking about (accessing)a map in their heads. That part of the universe is all you have to recreate.
Secondly, you don't have to recreate it in a complete totality. Basically, we are looking at, and concentrating on only one thing at a time.So it's like a web site where you click on links that take you to a different page.
Example: when you look at the night sky, you don't see all of the stars or all of space.To see more than we can with the unaided eye, we go to a telescope. But, what we see through the telescope is like a different web page.
So it would seem to be possible to create the ultimate reality game in which the so-called universe need have no direct relationship to the actual universe.This probably could be done.
O.K. Are you ready for this? What we know as life is a virtual reality.
Think about it. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ruthless
Rift Surfer
"O.K. Are you ready for this? What we know as life is a virtual reality.
Think about it."
i wasnt ready for it lol
could anyone answer this: how long would it take the most modern pc to render 1 frame or 1 second of this would be universe program?
also to darby. is having to guess about things the only thing missing from physics?
also does anyone think TT,and teleportation are linked to each other?
i just got this cool idea while writing this post: i wonder if there would be any way to do what i call a "hack." maybe make a frequency not recognizable to the universe. lol im a nut.
Think about it."
i wasnt ready for it lol
could anyone answer this: how long would it take the most modern pc to render 1 frame or 1 second of this would be universe program?
also to darby. is having to guess about things the only thing missing from physics?
also does anyone think TT,and teleportation are linked to each other?
i just got this cool idea while writing this post: i wonder if there would be any way to do what i call a "hack." maybe make a frequency not recognizable to the universe. lol im a nut.
wa1ex
Temporal Navigator
Japanese Scientists are already trying ot create a new universe
read this thread:
Related Thread
Or News:
http://news.com.com/2061-11200_3-6107507.html?tag=yt
read this thread:
Related Thread
Or News:
http://news.com.com/2061-11200_3-6107507.html?tag=yt