Alternate enrgy resources

creedo299

creedo299

Epochal Historian
In forty years, this world will have a lower raw petroleum resource.

Even the powers that be know this and they themselves, will be pushing for alternate vehicle, which use less fuel.

The concept that I am fostering here now, are vehicles, that give optimum performance, but can run with either little gasoline, an alternate fuel, such as corn derived gasohol, or not use hydrocarbon fuels at all.
 
Here in California hybrid vehicles have made quite an appearance. The state government is putting pressure on auto manufacturers to sell a certain percentage of energy alternative cars in ratio to gasoline powered vehicles.
The petroleum companies still have alot of political power, as in the past they completely obliterated the rail systems that went from outlying cities into Los Angeles.
The city I grew up in still has the reminents of the electrical rail car system visible on Beverly Blvd., of which Rainamn might be familiar with, if he has ever been to Whittier.
If the corporations made more jobs that could be completed from home, then this would slow down fuel consumption as far as vehicles are concerned. I, for one, would enjoy that.
The 91 Freeway is famous for its rush hour. As a truck driver long ago in the Los Angeles area, the freeways just plain...suck.
 
Thank you for your input.

Shortly this thread will be restuctured for the percepts of the baselines of an alternate vehicle
 
This thread and topic of discussion centers around alternate energy vehicles.

This said, is in the context that the current rate of gasoline fuel use, is projected by the department of energy, to near depletion in forty years time.

So it is squire that some simple concepts are brought to bear, for anyone who so desires an alternate energy vehicle.

A MYTHICAL AUTO VEHICLE:The first part of our projected alternate energy vehicle, would be the shell of the vehicle itself.

Most auto bodies are manufactured upon robotic assemblylines, to where the outer shell of the vehicle, is dipped in anti corrosion treatments, many time, along with being expected and having to meet certain national standards of manifesting criteria.

If this portion of the vehicle does not meet these asked standards, then this vehicle is reconsumed back into the factories digestive process and remade a'new till the national and international standards are met.

The outer shell of any auto, usually meets struck aerodynamic requirements, as well as safety guidelines, so that the occupant of the vehicle are safe, in the event of a highway or other mishap.

It would be a nice gesture, baring a national revolution, to be able to product newer concepts in energy saving vehicles, to the same standards

GENERAL CONCEPT, POWER APPLICATION; NASA quality grade solar cells, came at a time when people needed these applications, however pricing was prohibitive, so that not everyone could afford these high quality solar cells.

The general application of these cells to the exterior frame, is such that these a bank of these cells, are taken from a roll paperlike consistency, and then bonded to the outer surfaces of the proposed vehicle.

The amount of power derived from this bank of cells is not great, however supplies just enough power, to go into a solid state electrical amplifier and then a percentage of this, into both online energy storage or a bank of batteries.

An onboard computer, with a tri-axial solid state, non-hard-disk form of memory, is utilized in order to dive a mapping for the direction of needed current stored,
 
The main problem that I see, is applying a series of solar cells, to the exterior of outer surfaces of any new automobile, which will act as colleting sources, for power to be used within the overall general frame, of any held auto?

This means a process at a factory, to where an area of solar cells, is bonded in a process, that almost makes the solar cell receiving are, as part of the exterior surface?

This would be like a hardened out surface, that would withstand the everyday use.

*See high quality NASA solar cells, as advertised on both the web and in such publication as science and technology or other trades magazines.
 
From Art Bell, all rights reserved, at link http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/08/31.html#h

Hydrogen Fuel Cells
Fuel cells are essentially inexhaustible batteries -- as long as they're supplied with fuel, they don't lose charge. Within a fuel cell a simple electrochemical process takes place that converts hydrogen and oxygen into electricity, with heat and water as the only emissions.

Every fuel cell consists of an electrolyte membrane sandwiched between two electrodes: a positive electrode called an anode and a negative electrode called a cathode. Hydrogen (or hydrogen-rich fuel) is passed over the anode where a catalyst splits it into ions and electrons. The electrons cannot pass through the electrolyte material and instead travel around it via an electrical circuit to reach the other side of the cell. This flow of electrons is electricity.

The following U.S. Department of Energy animation illustrates how a fuel cell uses hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity.

*This animation requires Macromedia Flash Player to be installed on your computer.
 
Hydrogen Fuel Cells---as long as they're supplied with fuel...
Click to expand...

Opportunity knocking! It has been mentioned in several articles regarding the hydrogen vehicles that what will be needed to make this more feasible, would be a network of hydrogen fueling stations across the nation. As of yet there are none...Hmmmm
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Overlord' what I was looking for, was a solid state set of affairs, where one would have a platen solar cells receiver, then this is pumped into a current route splitter.

One route is lead to an amp capacitor style of storage unit, then amped up, and that current modulated, to then go to a motor.

There has to be a certain percentage, of the current, which re-feeds back to a battery bank, to where this current can at need, be fed into the main system again.

NASA has these types of solar cells, which are sold in malleable sheets.

I think the pricing has come down a bit on them?

The general idea, is a performance issue, that will propel any vehicle to the thirty-five to fifty mile per hour velocity range, but still observe the demands on not being too sluggish of a vehicle, in order for this type of energy vehicle to be practical?

A large block diagram and a little electrical engineering is what Im looking at.

A mixing computer can be taken from already energy current mixing cars, and then just have the gas, mixtures features, taken out of them?

We had better learn to do this, as one day, gasoline might become excessively expensive?

Do you have such diagrams accomplished as of yet, overl?
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Overlord' what I was looking for, was a solid state set of affairs, where one would have a platen solar cells receiver, then this is pumped into a current route splitter.

One route is lead to an amp capacitor style of storage unit, then amped up, and that current modulated, to then go to a motor.

There has to be a certain percentage, of the current, which re-feeds back to a battery bank, to where this current can at need, be fed into the main system again.
Click to expand...

In discussions with a friend of mine in utilizing a Tesla coil type of amplifier of energy, the problem was that for all the energy pumped into the batteries, the energy was sucked back out.

A researcher has claimed to have solved this problem with diodes placed in strategic locations allowing the power to flow one direction and be blocked from coming out of the batteries in the opposite direction

The system you are describing is being developed with Hydrogen Fuel Cells that are able to regenerate.


Mitlit1.gif


This technology is still in its research stages and drawings/schematics are hard to come by.

Regenerative Fuel Cells (RFC)

""The concept of the regenerative fuel cell is relatively new but is being researched by a number of groups around the world. This technology works on the same basis as a conventional cell in that hydrogen and oxygen are used to generate electricity, heat and water. The difference is that the regenerative cell also performs the reverse reaction, that is electrolysis. The water generated in the fuel cell is fed to a solar powered electrolyser where it is separated into its constituent components of hydrogen and oxygen which are then fed back to the fuel cell. In this way a closed system is formed which does not require external hydrogen generation. The development of a commercial system is some way off and there are a number of issues that need to be addressed including cost and the perfecting of a reliable way of harnessing solar power.""

I did find this diagram on one site..

fuel_cell_graphic.gif


Here is a link you may find valuable to your quest...

http://www.nrel.gov/homer/

HOMER is a computer model that simplifies the task of evaluating design options for both off-grid and grid-connected power systems for remote, stand-alone, and distributed generation (DG) applications. HOMER's optimization and sensitivity analysis algorithms allow you to evaluate the economic and technical feasibility of a large number of technology options and to account for variation in technology costs and energy resource availability. HOMER models both conventional and renewable energy technologies:

Power sources:
• solar photovoltaic (PV)
• wind turbine
• run-of-river hydro power
• generator: diesel, gasoline, biogas, alternative and custom fuels, cofired
• electric utility grid
• microturbine
• fuel cell
Storage:
• battery bank
• hydrogen

Loads:
• daily profiles with seasonal variation
• deferrable (water pumping, refrigeration)
• thermal (space heating, crop drying)
• efficiency measures



You can download and use HOMER for free. You must be a registered user to download the software. When you install HOMER, you automatically receive a free six-month license, which you can renew for free an unlimited number of times. To register, click Log On / Register and complete the registration form.
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

I tend to favor non-hydrogen, due to the fact, that once you run out of hydrogen, then you can not power your car.

The off-shelf availability of only solid state or applicable components is what Im interested in for now?
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

The fuel cell as described above doesnt need to be supplied with anymore hydrogen. The reverse process produces the hydrogen it needs to function with the energy output cycle.

You are looking to integrate several systems together, with the skin of the vehicle as the energy source, correct,and then have a electronic system process the energy into the propulsion drive system?
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Thanks' what I'm seeing however is the need for pumped-in hydrogen at all??

I'm not sure here, but my search is for off the shelf componets, that can be fashioned into any automobile.

I'm not real clued-in on how the construction of the hydrogen fuel cell goes?

I will have to look at more practicle applications of fuel cells in general?

I'm looking for something that I can shop replicate, or buy right off the shelf of junkyard.

Thank you
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

I have been working on the same. I am only at the first step and and am constructing my motor tomorrow. At first, it will be constructed normally and operate with a heat source from the flame of a candle.
The next step I plan on taking is to remove the candle as a heat source and hook up a solar system. I may try several types of heat transmission to operate the motor.
Once I am able to find a reliable heat source, I am going to play around with hooking the motor up to a Tesla type coil to power up. I have been told the Tesla wont work to increase the type of voltage I need, but I am certain I can find a way to make it function.
So far everything I have collected has been junk. I havent bought anything, yet. I did a test with the cylinder for the displacement piston and my customized coke cans( displacement piston ) are really pushing the air through the tube better than I thought, so I am excited to put this contraption together.

As far a hydrogen fuel cell that can regenerate, I dont know if I want to have alot of hydrogen sitting around, not until I am more familiar with it.
But I am thinking along the same lines as you. The skin of an automoblile gets so hot, there has got to be a way to make it useful in generating energy. My associate is experimenting with a cooling cell,if he can perfect that device, then we would be able to construct a Sterling type engine that would have the ability to operate using hot and cold to drive a motor.
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Note vehicle layouts for solar electric autos, are not being put forth, even though there have been many forecast, for the end of petroleum availability?
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Note vehicle layouts for solar electric autos, are not being put forth, even though there have been many forecast, for the end of petroleum availability?
Click to expand...

Are you aware of the torque per square foot performance metric for this technology? Solar is very well suited to static electricity generation, such as the panels that cover my south facing roof. But solar is not well-suited (all by itself) to being an efficient torque producer at the weight and friction requirements of your average, 2-3 person car.

I've work on the Cal Poly, Pomona CAPSET team in the past (and this is where I teach now in the Aero engineering department). I've done all the performance math on solar powered vehicles. They won't be "ready" for mainstream for at least 10 years, and that is at the very earliest. Much maturity needs to occur to achieve higher torque per square foot.

RMT
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

No' High Quality NASA Solar Cells, one of the few things, they've done right.

Coat the exterior of the autobody with these cells within a laminature composite. Then this output goes to both input utilization storage, a voltage mixer and then to a smoothing amp output source.

The solar cells only feed potential to balnce a large capacitor active storage source, which also feeds into your battery pack.

You are always feeding into that large active capacitor in and out source, to both run the electric motor, as well as change the battery pack.

You can replace any need for an engine, that uses fuel.
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

No' High Quality NASA Solar Cells, one of the few things, they've done right.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Creedo. They are a major advance in the technology. NASA does deserve a lot of credit for this, and the Helios UAV. But quite honestly, even going from the 14% efficient cells on my roof, to the better 20% of the new NASA cells is just not enough to be feasible for even a two-seat car with moderate cargo carrying capability. I'd say we need to get beyond the 45% efficiency level before what you say is feasible. And just a guesstimate, I think it will probably take at least another 8-10 years to reach that level of performance. But no un-doable in the long term. Just un-doable in the now. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can replace any need for an engine, that uses fuel.
Click to expand...

C'mon Creedo, think a little deeper! I'm not trying to insult or embarass you, just give you some more hints on thinking like a systems engineer. What is your plan for a overcast/raining day? Or several such days in a row? Not having redundancy in the system (i.e. not making it a hybrid) is severely limiting...even if we DID exceed 45% efficiency of the solar cells.

This is why what you describe will never be built as you describe it. Yes, a solar production car will eventually be built. But I guarantee it will be some type of hybrid. If not gasoline, then hydrogen fuel cell. Quite honestly, I am a bit hooked-in to venture capital investors, and they are savvy enough that they would never invest in a vehicle development of "solar only". If anyone came to them looking for funds for such a project (like Creedo Inc.) they would only extend their funding if you made it some type of hybrid, with a redundant means to be able to function for extended periods without solar energy input.

Here's another thing to consider Creedo. The Helios is an ultralight air vehicle, with a massive wingspan (the large aspect ratio gives higher lift-to-drag, or glide, ratio). Its power requirements are minor compared to what would be the requirements for a commuter vehicle. And a commuter vehicle, which will need higher power outputs than the Helios' engines, will have nowhere near the sufficient surface area to generate equivalent, or better, power.

I can run the equations and show you, if you really want to see its infeasibility, with current technology.

RMT
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

The petroleum people said they don't care, as they too know in a short amount of time, oil will have run out.

They don't care and actually accept new concepts.
 
Re:lrg. block routing diagrams e-cars

Note relocaization on the solar assisted auto.

These components are apparent within this concept.

1.An electric motor.

2.An amp power pack, which takes power from a storage capacitor, and feeds it to an electrical modulator regulator.

3.A computerized electrical load demand regulator.

4.A large tray battery pack, which can constantly be charged from the eletrical modulator divider.

5.Controls for the vehicle.

6.An exterior auto body, which has high quality solar cells, bonded onto the outside, as part of the power balance.

>Brief concept:The outside of the auto always takes in light, even marginal light.
This power is fed DC into a voltage take-up unit.
This power is fed to a converter and a DC electrical storage unit take-up pack.
This electrical power is both by in auto held computer, both modulated and regulated so that overvoltage does not occur.
All driving and or power commands, hail from the drivers and or automated controls.
A certain percentage of the solar cell collected power, is always fed into the battery pack.
An extra dynamo produced electricity off the main gearing and this current is stored within the power pack, after conversion.

This is a rough concept, and either DC, or AC power needs can be derived from this type of system.

I have already driven a smallish all battery power auto on demonstration.

So a larger solar celled powered car, is not that much further in logic's demands.
 
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