0011101001 >< Riddle

6

666911

Temporal Novice
AI is consisted with belief in on off switches represented by two digits; 0/1.
Binary.

DNA is composed of 3 parts, hence the 3rd dimension. The 3rd dimension is a program of the 4th dimension, just as the 1st/2nd dimension is a program of the 3rd dimension.

Depending on how one will or would look at it now is now, however in a state all exist here from the future. Just as AI is created from the 3rd dimension (known as here) to the 2nd dimension, and lesser longer forms 1st dimension, they will fall behind in comparitive to our time.

Translation for less of better wording all here are code to another, and here life is correctly real.

Just as a microscope may magnify beyond a 3rd dimension atom to a nucleus and forth on so on forever as the sight will allow you, this 3rd dimension universe is for lack of a better term "atom" in the 4th and higher without touching beyond to the 5th and 6th.

In short, here you are "God" energy. To another somewhere not understood, you are "code".

Compartively to binary of the 2nd dimension, or the DNA of the 3rd dimension for analogical grasp.

Just as "English" is a language flawed by translation of energy/emotion and recieved, so the binary is flawed at some levels, but acceptable results are produced nonetheless, however the engineer privately will be left for something lacking depending on his (his/her aka language barrier for translation).

Karma is a word. Love is a word. Multiverse is a word. Dimension is a word.

Behind the words lie the truth to the experience.

Babylonian mythos / brain languages versus numerical representation for the way the world is digested.

--------------------------------
Divisions in current humanity will not allow certain understandings at this point.
It is imparitive for levels of understanding to have depth within communication.

A question to further feeling on mutual understanding;

Frontal lobe understanding:

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz = A

123456789 11 22 33 44 55 66 77 88 99 = A

&amp;#1488; &amp;#1489; &amp;#1490; &amp;#1491; &amp;#1492; &amp;#1493; &amp;#1494; &amp;#1495; &amp;#1496; &amp;#1497; &amp;#1499; &amp;#1498; &amp;#1500; &amp;#1502; &amp;#1504; &amp;#1505; &amp;#1506; &amp;#1508; &amp;#1510; &amp;#1511; &amp;#1512; &amp;#1513; &amp;#1514; &amp;#1501; &amp;#1503; &amp;#1507; &amp;#1509; = C


B=?
 
I think I understand this one...

If a sailboat travels down the wrong side of a one way street with a flat left front tire, then how many pancakes does it take to shingle a doghouse.. true or false?

aHR0cDovL2Jlc3RzaG9wZmluZGVyLmluZm8vcHJvZmlsZTUvY29uc29saWRhdGlvbi1sb2Fucy5odG1s&amp;hl=0011101001

:oops:
 
Actually;

A = The English alphabet, and the 10 base number system with some hinting at numerology since it as well draws from the 10 base.

C = ISO 10646 Unicode for the Hebrew alpha/numeric alphabet
(see http://www.qsm.co.il/Hebrew/ab0.htm for reference)

B = ?

My two cents. Only short of one for now.
Come on now, am I the only one that enjoys good code breaking? This post has been up for a long time.
 
My two cents. Only short of one for now.
Come on now, am I the only one that enjoys good code breaking? This post has been up for a long time.
Click to expand...
there are other pending riddles...ie:

link to tti

and

link to TTI

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
aHR0cDovL2Jlc3RzaG9wZmluZGVyLmluZm8vcHJvZmlsZTUvY29uc29saWRhdGlvbi1sb2Fucy5odG1s&amp;hl=0011101001
Click to expand...

aHR0cDovL2Jlc3RzaG9wZmluZGVyLmluZm8vcHJvZmlsZTUvY29uc29saW
RhdGlvbi1sb2Fucy5odG1shiAgd291bGQgaGFzdmUgYmVlbiBhIGJpdCBtb
3JlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIGlmIHRoZSBlbmNvZGVkIHRleHQgd2FzIGF0IGxl
YXN0IHNvbWV3aGF0IG15c3RlcmlvdXMuLi5ub3QgdG8gYSBzaG9wcGluZyB
hZGRyZXNzLg==

:
 
then
75628 28591 62916 48164 91748 58464 74748 28483 81638 18174
74826 26475 83828 49175 74658 37575 75936 36565 81638 17585
75756 46282 92857 46382 75748 38165 81848 56485 64858 56382
72628 36281 81728 16463 75828 16483 63828 58163 63630 47481
91918 46385 84656 48565 62946 26285 91859 17491 72756 46575
71658 36264 74818 28462 82649 18193 65626 48484 91838 57491
81657 27483 83858 28364 62726 26562 83759 27263 82827 27283
82858 47582 81837 28462 82837 58164 75748 58162 92000

more at:
link to wiki
 
I believe the key to this cipher text is the last string/92000

It's the largest and only whole representative placeholder. Coincidence it is the last five digit string? In ciphers nothing is a coincidence until all rationale is ruled out (much like forensic science).

Here is the cipher broken down into Pythagorean single digits;
((If indeed it is a single alphabetic language once translated we are looking for - it very well could be a language other than english, then transmutated into english...well we would need to look at a dual digit break down either way...but you see the steps could be few or many);
The idea here is pattern searching to start off &lt;IE; consonant vs. vowel&gt;. As well as the aforementioned 'key' string that does not fit as the others to start with at least some stepping stone.)

1, 7, 6, 5, 2, 9, 3, 7, 8, 3
9, 6, 2, 8, 3, 9, 3, 7, 8, 8
3, 4, 4, 5, 4, 5, 2, 1, 4, 6
7, 2, 8, 2, 3, 4, 9, 5, 9, 6
1, 8, 2, 1, 9, 5, 5, 4, 9, 9
9, 3, 1, 4, 2, 4, 7, 1, 2, 8
9, 6, 5, 5, 5, 3, 5, 2, 9, 4
4, 8, 9, 4, 1, 6, 4, 4, 2

I'll take a poke at it for fun when I have some time. Thanks it looks interesting.

I could be wrong, but taking a look at the reasoning of it's creation, I would empathetically say it would seem his original intent was to have the reader 'think outside the box' - which leaves alot of angles to take into consideration (could be extremely easy in his creation, or extremely obscure).

Either way anything is crackable... tools vs. 'time' vs. etc.
 
Good Luck. That encoded message had been around for quite some time. At least, the date of it should provide some clue's.

As quoted in Wiki...

"The D'Agapeyeff cipher is an as-yet unbroken cipher that appears in the first edition of Codes and Ciphers, an elementary book on cryptography published by the Russian-born English cartographer Alexander D'Agapeyeff in 1939."

Since it was created in the 30's, many of the modern computer codes wouldn't seem to apply. And I would also wonder what type of message it is...perhaps an encription of a famous quote ?

Being in a cipher text book...would seem to narrow the options down somewhat.

The thing that gets tricky..is figuring which direction it might actually be going, vertical, horizontal, combination thereof...some numbers may not have any meaning at all.

In looking at other sites aroudn the web...there seems to alot of people working on that message posted by Recall.
 
Offered as a "challenge cipher" at the end of the book, it was not included in later editions, and D'Agapeyeff is said to have admitted later to having forgotten how he had encrypted it. It has been argued that the failure of all attempts at decryption is due to D'Agapeyeff incorrectly encrypting the original text -quote from Wikipedia-
Click to expand...

Spent some time with the "challenge cipher"...I figure he either:

(1) DID forget how he encrypted it.
(2) DID make a mistake.
(3) made it a simple cipher and was disgusted that nobody figured it out.


In regards to the possibilities of number 1 and 2, it seems to me that the author would have a draft, and the draft would contain both the pre-encrypted text, and the encrypted text. If not in the draft, then at least both forms would be in his pre-draft notes.

If he made it a simple cipher, and nobody figured it out, I could understand him becoming disgusted and taking a hostile stance towards the people that kept asking him for the answer...to the point he just told people he forgot how or what he did.

I agree with Angleochoas. The key to this cipher text is the last string/92000

After using several different "Tables ", I believe that the 92000 = A.

However...

The best method for solving this "challenge cipher" would be to read the text book, obviously the answer has to be contained within that book somewhere, maybe a simple, one-liner that has been over-looked all this time.

In looking at other people's work on this cipher, the complex methods are numerous, and it makes sense to me, that the author would become a bit upset if the readers of his book missed something simple.
 
The points you have brought up in your first reply were like you were reading my mind. I haven't had time to revisit this yet, however I'd like to soon.

To get a little more in depth for the time this was written, there are a few key points.
- 1930 had the introduction of the differential analyzer (Vannevar Bush)
- 1936 Alan Turing published his work "On computable numbers" (outlining the modern computer)

Coincidence this riddle appeared around the time of WW2? Ciphers must have certainly been very "the rage" around this time for good reason.

Again, how very complex, or how very "in front of the face" is the solution?

Also of note;
"Russian-born English cartographer Alexander D'Agapeyeff"
- Did the man mainly think in Russian or English, and was most of his personal notes in one or the other?

I have an idea but it's rather obscure so I'll post later if there's any relevance.

On a side note, I'd love to get my hands on the actual text, and see how many words are in the first paragraph. If the man was feeling egocentric enough to pose a question 'he will not remember' about the most important study of his apparent passion, I find it hard to believe he would borrow 'anothers' words to transmute.
 
Btw, I did not read your second reply until after I had responded to the first.

Seems as if we may be 'on the same page'. Uncanny. Thanks for the food for thought.
As for 92000 = A; very possible, however I'm unsure if the five digit strings are representing a single alpha or full word. Single Alpha would make things alot more straight forward, however a key to change any alpha string (IE; a three letter word vs. a ten letter word string encrypted to a five digit numeric string)
- would prove interesting.
 
The book is available through Amazon.

You made some excellent points.

What is interesting is that Alexander d'Agapeyeff was a cartographer. What role this played with his encryptian methods would be worth consideration. You may have hit on something with the " thinking outside the box" comment with regards to this particular puzzle.

The book was published in 1939, pre-WW2. That would indicate that the draft of the book was done pre-1939. How long he worked on it ...????

As I mentioned previously, I can imagine his frustration with nobody figuring it out to the point he just told people he forgot what he did out of spite.

He did earn a place in history, and this also may have contributed to his silence on this matter.

Excellent marketing strategy, even if by accident.

Also, I don't see it mentioned what his religious background was...IF he was Jewish, he may have had some knowledge of the Qabalah, which, in some disciplines, deals with ciphers of Hebrew Texts.

I was thinking of perhaps posting this "challenge cipher" in a forum that includes people versed in alchemy and who also are familiar with Aleister Crowley's works. Would be interesting to see how they approach this thing.

I believe that reading the book is of paramount importance, otherwise, the "challenge cipher" is completely out of context.

The number of others who attempted to decipher this "challenge" are numerous, and are from various levels of profession and education. Interesting that these individual's have failed ( so far ) in their attempts.

As far as any other languages being involved other than English...seems that question ( and many others ) would be answered by the book. If that subject is covered, then it is a possibility. If he didn't include the topic within the book, then I don't see Alexander employing that method of encryption.

I'd love to take a crack at it, "after" obtaining the book. Of course, loving a good mystery means spending some time on the "challenge" without the book, too.

I looked to see if anyone has posted portions of the book on-line without much success.
 
You've posted excellent points as well to say the least. The most obvious being obtaining the book. Speculation without the proper tools, is just that - pure speculation. (Not to mention if available - to get inside the mind of the person posing the question would be invaluable).
One thing I wanted to mention - it's most likely nothing...
You had mentioned the direction of the cipher (left to right, vice versa, diagonal, etc.),
If you turn the page upside down, and then flip it over you have the proper indentation of five spaces to begin a paragraph. (Which as well could simply mean the message would be reversed - I was just trying to paint a metaphor for the mind's eye).
Then whether or not 92000 represents a whole word or a single letter becomes irrevelant for a moment in reference to what you stated. Then indeed either way it represents "A"... the beginning.

Like I said, it's probably nothing, but I still wanted to mention it for now before I get my hands on a copy.

Wishing the best,

D.A.H

P.S.

It just occurred to me... you mentioned cartographer... prior to the publish date 1939... map makers used only paper and were used to folding/turning/and looking at things from all angles no?
Just was speculating on the indentation point. Like I said though, it's probably nothing.
 
If you turn the page upside down, and then flip it over you have the proper indentation of five spaces to begin a paragraph. (Which as well could simply mean the message would be reversed
Click to expand...

...map makers used only paper and were used to folding/turning/and looking at things from all angles no?
Click to expand...

I believe you may be onto something here. I haven't read anywhere that anyone has merely turned the cipher upside down, or reversed it as a cartographer would do with a map.

This made me wonder if Alexander also reversed the 6's to 9's, and the 9's to 6's, to hide the fact that he flipped the ciper around. A simple technique, and one that would be very difficult to recognize.

Anyone reading his book could employ all the techniques covered and many more, but if they miss the fact that he had turned the cipher upside down, and reversed some of the numbers to hide what he did...I could see where everyone would have a rough go of deciphering the challenge cipher.
 
If you would be so kind to check my work here, but the cipher turned upside down appears to be very interesting, and a whole lot different.

(1) As read upside down.

00000 00029 29185 84757 49185 73828 29482 73818 28574 85828
38272 72828 39272 65738 29592 92729 49382 85838 38472 75918
16475 83816 48484 92959 39181 64928 29482 81847 49293 85917
57594 95727 16471 65816 58292 94629 59584 95948 58394 81616
18474 03939 39185 82839 38491 82857 39491 82718 18293 82927
28393 85849 58495 84818 59183 84757 28394 75826 28294 95757
58571 83918 59593 93657 57573 85947 75164 82838 57492 92847
47181 83918 38482 84747 49485 84716 49184 91629 16582 82957

In looking at the cipher upside down, if we don't reverse the 9's and 6's, they stand out from the other numbers. Spacers ? The following is the cipher NOT upside down, but with all the 6's and 9's removed from the original cipher.

(2)

75 28 285 1 2 1 481 4 1748 584 4 74748 28483 81 38 18174
7482 2 475 83828 4 175 74 58 37575 75 3 3 5 5 81 38 17585
7575 4 282 2857 4 382 75748 381 5 81848 5 485 4858 5 382
72 28 3 281 81728 1 463 75828 1 483 3828 581 3 3 30 47481
1 18 4 385 84 5 485 5 2 4 2 285 185 174 1 7275 4 575
71 58 3 2 3 74818 284 2 82 4 181 3 5 2 48484 1838 574 1
81 57 27483 83858 283 4 272 2 5 2 8375 272 3 82827 27283
82858 47582 81837 284 2 82837 581 4 75748 581 2 2000

(3) Upside down w/o the 9's and 6's :

00000 0002 2 185 84757 4 185 73828 2 482 73818 28574 85828
38272 72828 3 272 5738 2 5 2 272 4 382 85838 38472 75 18
1 475 8381 48484 2 5 39181 4 28 2 482 81847 4 2 3 85 17
575 4 3727 1 471 581 582 2 4 2 5 584 5 48 383 4 81 1
18474 03 3 3 185 8283 384 1 82857 3 4 1 82718 182 3 82 27
283 5 8584 384 5 84818 5 183 84757 283 4 7382 282 4 5757
58571 83 18 5 5 3 3 57 57573 85 47 371 4 82838 574 2 2847
47181 83 18 38482 84747 4 485 8471 4 184 1 2 1 582 82 57

As I mentioned above, might want to double check my work, to ensure I didn't make a mistake.

The next step will be to try and make up the table's to see if "these" can be deciphered.

P.S. In my draft, they were lined up as presented x 5. They shift when I publish the post. I could edit in some lower case x's if that might be more helpful to you.
 
Just a thought here...without the 6's and 9's, we end up with a 02 and a 03...an indication to add a 2 to these digits ? and with the 03 to add 3 to the rest of the digits ?

And both the 02 and the 03 are followed by a 2 and a 3 respectively. 02 space 2, and 03 space 3. Something to consider ?

These seem to indicate some kind of change in the string. Do you see this as well ?

And 185 follows not to far behind both the 02 and the 03, as well. Hmmmm.
 
Sorry for the delay.

Great ideas with the numeric pattern, I like the ideas. (I need more time to go over what you've come up with - I'm passing out tired atm).

I've been very busy with everyday life drama, and the job recently - but this is eating at my mind to not forget about.

Without the book, and some insight into this man - my speculation can rationally only pertain to numeric value 'sigh' ... but still the end goal would be the message complete in a spoken language.

Call it a whim - and it may be just that - something has stuck into my mind and perhaps I need to logically remove it from speculation by process of elimination.

1930's - Was not latin still taught widely in most secondary schools? What language has extreme close ties to latin but easily translated into numeric value?
- Greek.

For some reason and like I said, I need to read the book, because I realize if I did, this speculation may seem utterly ridiculous

Though if I had the time/tools/resources atm, I'd love to try bending it and twisting it into the greek alphabetic numerals then retranslate into english. If for nothing more than to just get that idea out of my head.

If you wanted literal greek - english 'code';
The classical greek alphabet has 24 letters with three that have fallen out of use...
so 24/27 ... dancing around our english 26.

(For easy reference: http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Greek_numbers.html ).

At any rate I could be going down the entirely wrong road...oh another thing that I just realized maybe of no consequence;
I feel like a fool saying all of this without the book again but...you might find this funny -
you said the man was a map maker...
"Cartography" (in Greek chartis = map and graphein = write)


&lt;&lt;&lt;Don't ask me why I have a book on the archaic greek used as the language of commerce during christ's time ...
I find how the stars line up completely obscure at times (life).+
It makes about as much sense as when I was sitting at the kitchen table years ago with my mother &amp; step father and she said - you'll never guess what I got you for your birthday.
I looked up and said - oh the Qabalah? - Priceless expressions ^^
(strict roman catholic heritage on his side btw - nevermind my recently acquired knowledge my great uncle was a bishop [anglican] - I have a very fragmented family).
No one gave me any hints, help, clues -everything either just happens or life happens.
Life tends to do really odd things like that. I remember when I was 18, and knew nothing about the lesser key's real significance as I might 'think' I do now;
but that sunday when I travelled from a farm town to the big city and found the 'mystic book shop' closed... as I turned to walk away the lady whom owned the store just happened to open the window's curtain and make eye contact.
She opened the store for just me that day - It felt uncanny.
I've been collecting all these odd books since I was about 11 years old and something has kept me from actually immersing myself in them, ... some of them.&gt;&gt;&gt;

Sorry for the ranting, I've just finished the graveyard shift and still haven't slept as I wanted to take a look here. I realize that the above speculation on the translation is fairly unfounded, however if I didn't let my mind ramble - that wouldn't be doing as thou wilt so to say ^^

Thanks for entertaining my ramble, you've done some excellent work with numbers, I'll get back to locial numeric deductions soon - I need sleep for now. All in all I feel I should be ashamed for the amount of speculation I've written and how little actual time devoted at looking at this.


-blessings all.
 
Anyone reading his book could employ all the techniques covered and many more, but if they miss the fact that he had turned the cipher upside down, and reversed some of the numbers to hide what he did...I could see where everyone would have a rough go of deciphering the challenge cipher.

I'm just going over everything logically here again - process of elimination.

...1930's. The popular theories behind the mechanics of number crunching 'machines' had been the interest of alot of mathematicians during this period (IE; a throw back to Turing's book and others etc, etc) - paving the way for the "theory" of how someday computers would work.

The physical flipping &amp; reversing (let's call it reversed mirror) would prove to be the one useful "illogical" method to try to evade future "mechanical" detection.
It made me think of the novel Cryptonomicon - what would Turing and Rudy do to try and forever evade the others method? - Something so easy but yet illogical.
If an extra character in encryption ups the processing ante by so greatly in "time"
- Flipping and reversing ... interesting
How to evade computer processing? Something logical to a human, yet illogical to a machine.

This probably occurred more to people during his time than ours, as just having mostly "theories" back then and not practical applications lead to more philosophy on the subject. I could be wrong.

Payday is soon, and I know what I'm buying lol. (Books /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Thanks for all the insight, it's truly invaluable.
 
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