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Howdy Qrono,

seeing as you directed the link to me; here is my (hypothetical) analysis...

Yes, this guy is potentially a "major player" in creating the 'possible' future that you have 'claimed' to have come from. If you want to generate (what you might want to describe as) a temporal looped event stream to a 'civil' War (or worse), then you are right on the money.

If however you wan to acquire certain results (without the death toll) you would need to go down another avenue and be more patient. I currently do not believe you have the foresight and intelligence to do this though(hense why i dont believe you).

However - yes i bleieve that such a "major player" could be choosen to bring about a war.

The cynical part of me would say; If you really were what you claim (i dont believe it though) i would view you as a madman with a lit match, standing over a sea of petrol. As a time traveller - all credibility woul be lost.

For all our sakes - we should secretly be hoping that you get hit by a bus, before you make it to that mans house to delude his mind, rather then thanking you for directing us into VERY dangerous territory.

Kind regards,
Olly.

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Ok OllyB,

Let's try this once more.I can't delude him.Unlike you, he already know's what is taking place. We have information that will help him even more. We have contacted him and we will meet with him next week.We can not make anything worse by giving him this info. It can only get better. Olly how can he start what happened? This all started in 1963 when an element of the government killed JFK.Who was a part of what happened 1963? Daddy Bush.Who is in charge now?Bush JR. Who is even more powerful then Bush JR? Dick Chaney. Let me ask you this Olly? Have you seen any footage of a 757 hitting the Pentagon? Over 80 camera's around that building on 9-11-2001, and the only footage is of a grainy puff of smoke? Come on Olly! Who told NORAD to stand down that day? Dick Chaney. All this I have said about 911 is true. Documentation of Dick Chaney telling NORAD to stand down that day is easy to find.Let me ask you this? What are the odds of a simulation of plains flying into the world trade center taking place at the same time real plains fly into the world trade center? It is known that building 7 was blown up to conceal the high tech equipment that was in that building to home the plains in on the targets. Even in 2065 no building in history has ever fallen down because of a fire. Even if it did, it would not fall straight down like a controlled demolition. Why did all that happen? To take your rights away in America.To start a police state.What has happened in the USA since 9-11-01?Hitler himself would love the Patriot Act 1, & 2 even better. The Bill that Bush Jr wants to pass is the first major step since the Patriot Acts of pushing forward the plains of the globalist of bringing down the economy of the USA. By making Illegal Aliens legal, or amnesty.If this bill passes all the way, after a short time another bill will be passed to chip the Mexicans, to keep them under control. Then the kids will be chipped to "keep them safe". Then not to long after that laws will be passed for all Americans to get chipped. By the way America will not be the only place doing this.Your credit will have to be in good standing for you to get a job. Sorry I made a mistake, Jobs will require you to have a chip to get into work or clock in.Then not to long after that laws will be passed. Mexico is already doing the chip thing now. Yes it sounds like a bad movie.But it's your future!And I must say things get worse then what I have told you.

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ok ur last post just made it brilliantly clear.

u (like me) are one of the conspiracy nutterz. however, i dont go around makin guff up about being from the future of these alleged events. the stuff you are talking about sounds very much like the things me and my mates sit round and talk about after a big green bifter.

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Let me ask you this Olly? Have you seen any footage of a 757 hitting the Pentagon? Over 80 camera's around that building on 9-11-2001, and the only footage is of a grainy puff of smoke?

i found it strange they never released any other footage of this crash, but what about the HUNDREDS of people driving down the road alongside the pentagon at the time? was it a massive hologram? where ALL these people paid off to say they saw a plane? are they all part of the conspiracy?

you sound like you have just gone onto the newamericancetury website, taken a lot of their stuff very literally, and made it into a story about "the future". that website is very scary in terms of the remarks it makes about the world, the fact its even called NEWAMERICANCENTURY is a bit scary, but ther are scarier things out there. like this for example; when it comes to people like you, hitler had the right idea, he was just an under achiever. (that might piss a few people off, but hey, i stole it from bill hicks.. so sue me)

go back to your hole qronos.

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Yep. It is quite clear that you buy-into someone else's propaganda without ever bothering to research things yourself. Just one example:

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It is known that building 7 was blown up to conceal the high tech equipment that was in that building to home the plains in on the targets.

Not only is this not "known" (as in proven with real evidence), but the simple fact is that ALL commerical airliners have sufficient navigation capability and accuracy to hit ANY building in the world without external "homing" equipment. If you understood anything about GPS, Inertial Navigation Systems, and Flight Management Systems installed on commercial jets, you would know that this is a croc.

But you go on believing what you want. It doesn't make it any more true than your claim you are from the future. It will only further warp your mind with unverfied information.

RMT

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

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LOL you are so funny!! LOL!!! They never release any footage LOL. Yes they did norn just in the last couple of weeks. The conspiracy is that a 757 flew 2ft about the ground and crashed into the pentagon and left no trace of a 757 ever crashing.Newamericancetury website? What's that? And what are you doing on the site? As for me going back to a whole. LOL you don't even know what is going on in your own time!! Sounds like you need to get out of that whole yourself.

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You guys I tell ya,

Rainman I do not buy into anyone's else's propaganda,these are the facts.It's apparent you have not done any research yourself. If you had, you would know that a building would not fall down from a fire.But lets just say it did fall from a fire, why would the building fall since building 7 only had 3 reported small fires in the building? Why would the building fall straight down on it self like a controlled demolition? Here is something for you, call Alex Jones and ask him how he knew that the world trade center was going to be attacked 2 days before it happened. He has proof he knew and said it on the air 2 days before it happened on his show. How would he know this and the US gov claims they did not know? Hitler said it best, "The bigger the lie the more people will believe it". Sometimes if you hide something in plain site people will never see it.One more thing. I will tell you something about Art Bell from a book that I read that's not been written yet. Before the year 2000 Art and his wife took $80,000 and some gold and buried it in the ground at his home. Art thought that Y2K would be a problem. After his wife died this year and right before he moved to his new home in the Philippines he went out to get the money that him and his wife buried, it was gone. It would seem that Ramona had took the money and done only God knows what with it. Art was sad about that. Now why do I tell you this? It would seem to you this is meaningless. I tell you this because 1 the book has not been written yet.2 only 2 other people know about this right now in this time. Art Bell and the person who will write the book. Now I will not tell you the name of the book. But keep what I have told you here, for you will see that this is true. As for all the things I have told you all about 911, It's all true people. As bad as it all is, it's all true. If the bill passes they will chip the Mexicans and then the kids, and then all of you. You have been warned!

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At the time of 911 I did question the temperatures generted by burning Hi-octane.

The simple facts of temperatures:

~1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.

The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.

So they steel DID NOT melt unless somehow an incredible pressure was exerted ATMOSPHERICALLY on the two tower of the WTC.

However, steel does not need to melt to weaken, yet even if the jet fuel burned at its max tempertaure, which it did not, the steel would still be 50% relative strength. enough still to support the builing, as civil engineers will tell you 33% of the steels strength yield was sufficient to support the towers.so at half strength the steel is stills trong enough not collapse.

What about distortion, steel would have distorted signnificantly across the 'lit', buring levels of the WTC towers, with a notable difference between the side the plane struck and the side the plane did not strike. I believe the steel did not buckle, support from concrete, which was still solid, and the conduction of heat through the steel would have prevented it from doing so. Also HAD it buckled it would be observeable from the outside prior to the collpase, and it would not have collapsed at free fall in a uniform vertical DEMOLITION, it would have collapsed such that the top of the tower would have leant away from the impact side. possible sparing the bottom half of the towers as well.

However, in the rubble there was found melted steel, this could NOT have been caused by the jet fuel, and suggests maybe some other side reaction, themite or a eutectic reaction.

A eutectic reaction requires some form of sulphur pollutant, at which the temperatures would have bee sufficient to form iron sulphide. The eutectic principle sates that at sufficient temperature a component of lloy will become molten reguardless of the melting point of transition metal used. So the Iron sulphide would have become molten, in so doing, it would have further corroded through the steel lattice permeating iron and sulphur futher into the steels supports, and perpetuating the process further, as to tower collapse.

However I do not know if New York has sufficient Sulphur Oxide levels in its local atmosphere for this to occur with atmospheric source, and acid rain can be ruled out as it wasnt raining. other sources insdie the building are more possible if this is the methid by which the steel was found to be molten and slagged in appearance.

Metallugical analysis has not been revealled for the molten/melted steel/metal. So no one can now this completely, whther the molten appearance was Iron sulhide slag, which would ahve been red in colour or if the molten metal was Steel itself.

The thermite reaction could have supplied the molten steel would have been required to have been artificially prepared, with Aluminium Oxide and a heat source greater than the hot jet fuel. So themrite reaction did not occur by the jet fuel heating the steel.

Also the sprinkler apparently malfunctioned.

SO YOU CANNOT PROVE WHAT YOU JUST SAID!

I do find the collapse hard to believe but there are many possiblities to investigate as to the nature of the 'melted metal', and it should be said that if that melted metal were not present I would firmly conclude that the towers hard been artificially DESTROYED!

GS

'I just want the truth'- Me

 

'The desire for truth will always prevail over any lie'- Plato

 

 

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Rainman I do not buy into anyone's else's propaganda,these are the facts.

Baloney.

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It's apparent you have not done any research yourself.

You are absolutely wrong.

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If you had, you would know that a building would not fall down from a fire.

Do you want an engineering answer? Or are you not to be "troubled" with those kinds of facts? Fire induces heat, which not only creates increased stress in structural members (due to expansion), but it also weakens the structural rigidity at high temps. Jet fuel burns at VERY high temps. You are WAY out of your league here, pal.

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Why would the building fall straight down on it self like a controlled demolition?

It's called gravity. You can even do an experiment of your own to convince yourself of this: Create a structural model of one of the twin towers (including mass fractions above and below the aircraft impact zone). Then severely weaken the vertical structural members in the aircraft impact zone. The WEIGHT of the upper portion of the building is due to what again? That's right, GRAVITY. And what direction does gravity operate in? STRAIGHT DOWN!

If you'd like to have a technical debate on these types of engineering issues, I'd be more than happy to educate you on how your current thoughts are clearly not in conjunction with engineering analysis. In fact, given what I have just presented about gravity and the vectorial direction it acts in, I should immediately ask you to present an analysis of why you think a building should "tip over" instead of collapsing straight down under the conditions that the WTC was in on 9/11.

RMT

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

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As i said metal warping would have introduced a torque to the to half of the tower.

I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you have written, GS. However, any induced torque due to warping would be at least an order of magnitude smaller than the dynamic loads caused by collapse of the vertical load bearing members. Furthermore, there is no evidence that such loading would be asymmetric in any one direction.

I do think that you might be understimating how hot the fire may have burned. Adiabatic flame temps of JP4 and JP5 are in the 1800-2000 degree C range. And even tho not confined within the small volume of the engine's combustion chamber, the volume of fuel (the airplanes were loaded for trans-continental flights) coupled with material in the building burning would certainly put the fire in the range where significant stress increases and significant decreases in structural rigidity would play a factor.

To ensure that friend Qronos has some good material to study, HERE is a civil engineering analysis to review. And allow me to quote the specific area that backs up my claims about stress and rigidity in the face of high temps:

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However, as fire raged in the upper floors, the heat would have been gradually affecting the behaviour of the remaining material. As the planes had only recently taken off, the fire would have been initially fuelled by large volumes of jet fuel, which then ignited any combustible material in the building. While the fire would not have been hot enough to melt any of the steel, the strength of the steel drops markedly with prolonged exposure to fire, while the elastic modulus of the steel reduces (stiffness drops), increasing deflections.

And one more fact to consider with regard to "controlled implosions" of buildings: The "pancaking" effect is not something created by the shaped charges or their relative detonation times. It is, in fact, the nature of gravity and mass momentum. So, one could say, that the WTC "pancaking" looked like a controlled implosion because demolition experts use gravity to their advantage in just this manner!

RMT

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

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Rainman,

I know you believe what you say to be true. But I am here to tell you what happened. You can list all the links you want, but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government. The answers are right in front of you.

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(Good_Scientist) Looks like someone has done his homework.

Several firemen at the location report explosions right as the towers where falling. Oh by the way footage of the firemen saying this can be found by going to infowars.com. One of the firemen said they heard a boom boom boom like a controlled demolition. But I'm sure he was a conspiracy person to right? He just made that up. No one has explained why building 7 fell? Very small fires but yet the building just fell. Anyway I told you all what happen. That's that!

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I know you believe what you say to be true. But I am here to tell you what happened. You can list all the links you want, but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government. The answers are right in front of you.

This is not a very technical rebuttal of the engineering facts I have presented. Care to provide a source for your latest unfounded allegation (the 70% number)? Perhaps an Alex Jones poll?

You can make all the statements you wish to about you "knowing" what happened. The fact that you cannot provide real evidence to support them (or challenge what more than one independent expert analysis has concluded) means you are blowing hot air.

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Several firemen at the location report explosions right has the towers were falling. Oh by the way footage of the firemen saying this can be found by going to infowars.com. One of the firemen said they heard a boom boom boom like a controlled demolition.

Can you guess what consecutive concrete floors of a massive building might sound like as one falls onto another falls onto another? Can you provide any technical analysis from a verified expert that SUPPORTS this view? I have provided such that dispels it, so you are going to have to do at least as well as that information to support your (or Alex Jones') claim(s).

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No one has explained why building 7 fell? Very small fires but yet the building just fell.

Again, you are just flat out wrong in your first assertion. In fact, a highly respected technical publication had an article that dispensed with quite a few of your hero's conspiracy myths:

Popular Mechanics Debunks 9/11 Conspiracy Myths

Read that whole thing through, and then write to your hero, Alex Jones, and ask him to provide ANY sort of equivalent technical rebuttal to this. He cannot.

Qronos, you appear to be one of the worst cases of how shallow information (which cannot be scientifically validated) can lead you to believe propaganda. The fact that you do not question things very deeply at all, and apparantly do not possess the technical abilities to ask or answer probing questions, means you have a mind ripe for molding and a pocket ripe for picking. I hope you have not given Alex Jones any of your money.

RMT

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

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Rainman

Boy you really don't know what is going on in your own time do you? The poll that I spoke of is a poll that was all over Fox news and CNN. Not Alex Jones. LOL!!!!!! Alex is not my hero, he is a man that is putting his life on the line for his nation. All the things on his website are news articles from many different news sources all over the world. So what are you talking about? Do you even know? You want research? Here it is: http://www.infowars.com/resources.html#TIES now let me guess, you will find some way to explain all that away right? LOL!!!! What scientific proof have you offered? You post a bunch of meaningless babble and then pat yourself on your back. The only thing you have proved is how shallow you are. And give Alex Jones my money? Why would I do that? And again, what are you talking about? You call yourself an American believing everything the government tells you? I'm willing to bet money you think that oil is from a bunch of dead dinosaurs under the ground right? And the reason why your gas prices are so high is cause they are running low on oil, and that they can't keep up with demand.

Alex Jones is a tool my friend. The only thing Alex Jones will be getting from us is info. I feel sorry for you, you really need to wake up.

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TTA_01

New Orleans is the city of the dead in 2065. Why does it have that name? It's not there anymore. That city will be wiped off the map. The US stock market will make it all the way to 12ooo and then some and crash big.

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No time travel is not illegal. What I'm simply doing is telling you all what is going to happen if the Mexicans are allowed amnesty. I will say this one last time. If Mr Bushes bill passes all the way, and the Mexicans are granted amnesty, that will start a Chain of events. The Mexicans will have to be tracked. They will pass a bill to chip the Mexicans. Ok. Then a little while later another bill will be passed to chip kids "TO KEEP THEM SAFE" Then. They will say it will be much easier for businesses to keep track of employees by getting them chipped. But let me say I think the resistance has delayed this for awhile, not sure yet. Then after they put toll roads all over the place and kill the Internet in the form you know it in now, then they will try to chip all the rest of you. Many people will fight this. Some are now fighting. So many people are now awake that it has slowed the globalist agenda. The Internet 2 will be something you must also fight if you want to be able to do the things you are able to do now on the net. In my past the Internet 2 was born and boards like this was no more.

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