Time and Change

1stBorn

Member
If there are more than three dimensions, and I tend to believe that there are... could time be common to all dimensions and play a role through out?..

If change ceased to exist would time still be existent? For example, if everything stopped changing in this dimension, if everything stopped moving, including light.. would time still exist?

If time is a three dimensional entity, which we have discussed here already, and could be viewed from the outside in, possibly through a higher dimension, could it be possible for time to actually exist in that higher dimension? Could it be that time is actually composed of more that three pieces but our limitation in perception is playing tricks again?

just a few questions I've been asking myself in this quest to understand... any thoughts?

1stBorn

time is not a physical entity. It's just somthing we thought up for lack of a better word

But if change exists in a higher dimension then time must exist. Physical or whatever.. it would still exist... right?

If there are more than three dimensions, and I tend to believe that there are...

I thought time was already considered as the 4th dimension? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If time is a three dimensional entity, which we have discussed here already, and could be viewed from the outside in, possibly through a higher dimension, could it be possible for time to actually exist in that higher dimension?

I've tried to visualize that in 3 short animations. I already posted the links in another thread, but I'll try and explain them here:

In these three animations I've taken a random object and animated it in three different ways (click to download each animation).

1. Linear time as we perceive it.

Here you see the object moving as if you were looking at it. This is how we perceive time. We see objects moving in a certain direction with a certain velocity. One moment you see an object and the next it has moved to another coordinate in space.

2. A "slice" of time.

What if we could stop time and look at it from another point of view. Now we see the same object, but since time does not progress it just hangs there in mid-air. We would be able to view the object from all sides since it does exist in all three dimensions, but because of the way we perceive time it's impossible to do so.

3. Time seen from a different perspective.

In our perception time passes, but is the past really gone when a certain moment in time passes? What if we looked at time in a non-linear way. Lets say we were looking at 3 seconds of time and space at once. You'd see the same object occupying more than one coordinate in space.

Roel

Hi Roel!

Nice animations...once again, I have tool envy as I wish I had the SW (and time) to be able to make animations like these. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My only comment is to:

2. A "slice" of time.

What if we could stop time and look at it from another point of view. Now we see the same object, but since time does not progress it just hangs there in mid-air. We would be able to view the object from all sides since it does exist in all three dimensions, but because of the way we perceive time it's impossible to do so.
I think you probably already realize this, but I wanted to point it out for sake of being explicit: Even though the object is "frozen" in time in this view, the motion of you (the observer) around the frozen object still involves time. So while you did your best to display this view of frozen time, the reality would be something that you cannot animate. Namely, there would be no motion of you, the observer. Instead, you would simply be able to see the object from ALL positions at the same time. You would be taking it all in from all perspectives. Interestingly enough, such a view would be spherical in nature. In terms of the "light bubble" that I talk about in another thread, this view would be as if you, the observer, exist on ALL points of the surface of the light bubble, and are looking inwards on the subject/object.

Keep up the good work!
RainmanTime

Even though the object is "frozen" in time in this view, the motion of you (the observer) around the frozen object still involves time.

Yes, I realized this. Yet, I thought this was the best way to visualize a slice of time.

You can compare the spherical view to the way "bullettime" effects are made in movies like "The Matrix"). They align a number of camera's around the subject and each camera makes a snapshot of the same moment in time.

By the way, when you look at a sphere, there's two sides... inside and outside. Does the outside of the sphere represent a negative quadrant in your matrix? Or is that another one of my misinterpretations?

Roel

P.S. I said in my description of the "slice" of time, it's impossible to view an object in this way, because of the way we perceive time. I can't think of a better way to visualize it.

no not always, in a higher deimsion the beings of that world may not be affected by "time" in short we humans invented time, the dinosaurs didn't have enough brain power to grasp the concept

Re: Time and Changing your Point Of View

P.S. I said in my description of the "slice" of time, it's impossible to view an object in this way, because of the way we perceive time. I can't think of a better way to visualize it.
Oh, I completely agree! I wasn't criticizing, as much as I was simply clarifying. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

By the way, when you look at a sphere, there's two sides... inside and outside. Does the outside of the sphere represent a negative quadrant in your matrix? Or is that another one of my misinterpretations?
Actually, not so much a misinterpretation as it is a perfect lead-in to a discussion of our human Point Of View (POV). But first let me try to answer your question. In this case, the sphere represents the "light bubble event horizon" of some event that has occurred in the universe. Since the bubble is formed by light, and light is energy, the bubble itself is composed of all 3 elements of Massive SpaceTime. This is because in the strictest scientific terms, Energy is a function of Mass, Space, and Time.

Now, let's "look" at this situation from two different POVs to "see" if we can identify how the inner and outer surfaces of the "light bubble" relate to positive or negative quadrants of Massive SpaceTime. If you are the OBSERVER of some event, this would place you outside the growing light bubble emanating from that event. As the bubble expands to your point of observation, you perceive the event as the outer surface of the light bubble strikes you. Thus, in the Massive SpaceTime Matrix this would be represented in the "positive quadrants" since it relates to something that you experienced. In other words, you can plot this event on your Massive SpaceTime Matrix in terms of the Mass you observed, where in Space relative to youself that you observed it, and a point in your relative Time that you made the observation. It would only be considered in the "negative quadrants" for some person who was NOT observing that event... for example, if I had my back to the event, the light bubble would strike me but I would have NOT perceived the event at all. Supposedly, the event did happen (perhaps if you observed it you told me about it), but since I did not observe it, it would not be registered in my "positive quadrants" of Massive SpaceTime.

But now.... let us examine this same scenario, but this time we will take the POV of the person who created this event. This is the person who initiated the "light bubble" with his/her creative act. Here we can see that the act of Creation is different, and diametrically opposed to the act of Perception. Since this person created the event, the inner surface of the light bubble they create represents "positive quadrant" elements in Massive SpaceTime. The reason this is so is because that light bubble defines the zone of influence of the event that it is transmitting. In other words, the inner surface of the bubble defines the limits of your expectations for what you hoped to accomplish in your external environment as a result of initiating the event. Do you understand this? To you, the creator of the event, the outside surface of this light bubble represents the "negative quadrant" elements on Massive SpaceTime for the sheer fact that you are NOT the observer of this light bubble, but rather its creator. When you merge this with the discussion of the event observer described above, you see a nice balance: My negative quadrants directly corresponds to their positive quadrants, and vice-versa. Energy is conserved, just like the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics tells us it should be!

And of course, the POV is a major element of Einstein's Relativity. How you select your POV for any given event will partially determine how you will perceive that event.

Does this make sense? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Kind Regards,
RainmanTime