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Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of Time


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I would like to begin a post discussing the presence of theology (all prescribed religions and their variant denominations, as well as 'newer' versions), philosphy (you name them, most likely post modern, as well as scientific, such as Hawkins and gang) and Historical evidience as proof of specific theories revolving aroud time travel and exixtence in the universe (to include visitations etc..most likely colonization though..conspiracy hmmm?).
OK, I'm going to keep it short for now, please respond, it could provide for some rather..heated debates.
You want to know how Theology fits into everything?

Study EVERY MAJOR RELIGION on this planet. Find one thing in common with all of their various philosophies. Then... read Lao Tzu's "Tao Teh Ching".

Soon thereafter, everything will make sense.
Well, yes, I do tend to study most major religions, and tend to approach them from a phenomenomical apprach rather than a fundementalist or comparative appraoch in order to truely find the linear commonalities. However, I'm more interested in individuals bringing their explanations based upon either a theological appraoch (such as a Judaic/Christian understanding or Islamic Sufi, which ever order). easten philosohpy/theology is interesting itself, such as the book you mentioned, yet I'd be far more interested in a debated based upon your understanding of the thesi.
Here's what I think:

The universe created itself thus:

1) Nothing occupied infinite space at the origin of time.
2) When nothing occupies infinite space, then everything must occupy one singular point.
3) The result of which, is a singularity which inverts the relationship.

These three states result in perfect equilibrium which is all that exists.

Thus, the universe is the natural reaction to the existence of nothing. It was not created by any God. As a matter of fact, the Universe itself created God by the propagation of intelligent life forms.

Intelligent life forms seek to understand their surroundings. Since an infinite amount of time has passed before our existence and an infinite amount of time will pass after we die, then all of what we know will be pooled at a central hub of consciousness at the centre of the universe, which according to the definition of infinity, is in fact, all points in space and time.

Thus, everything we knew, know now and ever will know is stored all throughout space and time in the metaphysical or "imaginary" properties of everything.

God did not create us. We created God. We build "Him" every day of our lives.

There is no hell. There is no heaven.

Enjoy your life on Earth as much as possible. Screw up all you like. Learn from your mistakes. You will simply move to another plane of time when you die and live your same life over again until you get it right. When you achieve perfection, you will be able to tap the "God" consciousness and manipulate space and time with your mind. The universe will be your playground.

Also, a tool-using creature need not wait on evolution to spark this ability. It may very well be possible to use a radionic device powered by a singularity to seize the power of God for one's own pleasures.

The meaning of life is to have as much fun as possible by just living.

That's what I think.
Here I am in a forum that I might have some say in, since my posts in the time travel forum seemed meek. I really don't know what to say, but I can say that I have an understanding with life in general. I don't need to say 'theories' or 'my beliefs', though if I do I am not contradicting what I am saying. Let me tell you how I seem to have acheived enlightenment, and by no means do I wish to come off sanctomonious. It all started a few years ago when I made it a habit never to express emotions, mainly so I wouldn't laugh at my own jokes. As time goes on I feel depressed with how much I work and I have a mid-life crisis. Luckily, I was to have knee surgery, which allowed me to lay down for a while and do something I haven't done in ages: play video games. ANd I had an awesome time; however, after a while being alone with Grand Theft Auto can be boring, so I started to read some books-this I haven't done on my own in ages as well. Now, I am a movie fanatic and I watched a sequenced of heart warming films: Pay it Forward, Thin Red Line, Apocolypse Now, Requiem for a Dream, PI, and whatever else i could find a DVD of. Anyways watching these movies, reading these books, playing video games all released me from my prison of working and school and dealing with arrogance. I felt reguvinated and had a sense of mind. I understood so much. Now I look at the trees and the sky and grass and I never realized how vivid the colors were. I relized life is good; I was ready to work and to put up with everything...I felt enlightened. The feeling fades, but you still know nothing can stop you except for the infiltration of arrogance and fear. I am not done ranting, but i will stop anyway...okay, thnx.
Well, very...hedonistic with a touch of Protestant "Grace". OK, but other than the heart felt rhetoric of life is grand and live it to its fullest (oh Robin Williams and your damn Carpe Diem);
1) Nothing occupied infinite space at the origin of time.(Ok, my comment is that you suggest that there is an origin of time, therefore immediatly made the universe fininte and definable...shame shame. Time, as we define it is a human construct since we began observing concious actuality. Please note..some one/thing else may have observed time before us.OK, I think you get the point...I'm not a fan of the big bang theory or that big thumb of God getting the marble rolling).
2) When nothing occupies infinite space, then everything must occupy one singular point.(Ok...interesting, other than the Absolute objectiveness of infinity, such that if thought out, every thing loops back upon its self in the unmeasurable amount of variables,. Our attempts to map this tend to be limited to our ability to observe and calculate. Internal concepts of one suingular point could be sound, however they do not provide for the very fact that if we have a singular event/thesis whihc becomes a consant, a mutliple of varibles/anti-thesis then are created, and dependenet on the event, with or without knowledge of the understaning. This then creates the infinity paradox of synthesis..or the Head and Shoulders Paradox..and so on..and so on..)
3) The result of which, is a singularity which inverts the relationship (whihc cannot be plausble...single..and relationship...the singularity has a relationship with what? OK, everything is dependent on the natural conflict to create momnetum...whihc requires two or mre varibles. Singularities exist, however create depndent variables immediatly after the conception of its event horizon).
Your theory is sound in some parts, I like the discusion of infinity, however the folding in of a an inverted singularity suggestes the application of the inner-space theories. the elements of this discussion limit the understaning to two dimensional models.
Super, glad you found enlightenment in media consumer products. Yikes! My friends from 'high' school have been doing that for ten years, with the added sensation of illict substances. OK, not hurt your Zen, but OH MY GOD(what ever form you've been programed to worship..NBC..CNN)!!!! Wake up and smell the conformity! You want enlightenment? OK, critically look at your post, and tell me if your trees and nature walks don't contian trademarks. OK, I'm not trying to be mena, but Pizza Hut just dropped off my 12 inch and 2 litre of Pespi, the girl friend wants to watch the Bachelor, and all I wanted was a Bud light...huh...Wasssup you say....???????
There are three forms of "happiness"... well, six if you count delusions, but let's remain logical for a moment:

The three main forms of happiness are: Satisfaction, Joy and Serenity.

Satisfaction is a feeling of intense pleasure and minute love. Serenity is a feeling of intense love and minute pleasure. Joy is a feeling of equal love and equal pleasure.

Examples of satisfaction: Eating a hearty meal. Getting a strike at the bowling alley. Getting a good performance review at work.

All of these are particulary pro-survival, but you generally do them by yourself.

Examples of joy: Meeting your girlfriend as she gets off the train. Winning a football game. Landing a big deal in business.

All of these are generally pro-survival, but you generally share these moments with other people.

Examples of Serenity: Sitting on the porch by yourself or with some friends just having a quiet moment. Holding a loved one close, without saying much, or anything at all. Taking a leisurely stroll through nature.

All of these are outward signs of your confidense in your own ability to survive, and you are simply allowing your senses to take in all that affects you and feeling a deep, inner connection with your surroundings. Some might even say that Serenity is taking your survival for granted, and just enjoying whatever's around you. There's nothing wrong with it... it's very healthy.

The two "best" emotions out there are Passion and Serenity.

Passion is a little bit o' anger and a little bit o' love. Anger is actually a combination of love and pain. It really has nothing to do with hatred, except that the natural reacton to anger is vindictiveness, which is equal and opposite to anger, being an equal mix of pleasure and hatred.

Being passionate about something means that you love something intensely, but you are angry about something that is happening to the object of your love, which makes you act passionately in rectifying the situation, that the object of your love will continue to endure.

Good parents often act passionately in raising their children. They offer encouragement, and show love even when they have to punish their children. Spanking is only ever used as a last resort, and may not be used at all, as these parents are often very clever in getting a child to behave.

Bad parents tend to be vindictive about everything. They're the types that have no remorse in over-spanking a child, or punishing EVERYTHING by spanking, or not letting kids fight their own battles and such. When I see parents like that I just wanna kick'em squar in the nuitz.

but then I realize that wouldn't be very passionate of me. So I just ask the kid why he would do that and usually the kid is all like "huh? wha? someone cares what I think?!?!"

I hate stupid parents. People should require licenses to breed /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But this letter was supposed to be about happy! so...

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif :D /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by the "origin of time".

Consider the cartesian plane. It has an x-axis, and a y-axis. (let's leave the z-axis out just for simplification)

So the x-axis and y-axis intersect in the "middle" of the cartesian plane. The "middle" of the cartesian plane is called the "origin", because it is at the mutual intersection of all axes that everything equals zero.

Consider now for a moment that time is three dimensional (which I've been saying in the time travel forum for almost two weeks) The real and imaginary values of time are all we need to analyze the flow of matter and energy. The third temporal dimension simply contains mirror images of reality by which temporal paradoxes are made impossible, to avoid universal instability.

Now, the "real" axis of time shall be the "x" axis on the cartesian plane and the "imaginary" axis shall be the "y" axis.

+x has an infinite number of values on it.
+y has an infinite number of values on it.
-x has an infinite number of values on it.
-y has an infinite number of values on it.

This, the number of points on a cartesian plane is equal to 4(infinity squared)

and the number of points in three dimensional space equals 8(infinity cubed)

Thus, what I meant by "origin of time" was that point in time at which there is an infinite number of "points in time" in all three mutually perpendicular directions around it.

There is nothing finite about it.

However, when one considers the nature of infinity, all points in time have an infinite number of
points in time" around them.

Thus, one could very easily conclude that every moment of existence is in actual fact, the origin of time.

It could easily be so. If the entire universe is infinite, then there is likely a black hole created somewhere in the universe, every bloody moment of existence. And as I said before, the moment a singularity is created, an infinite amount of space is filled with infinite energy in the same space of time.

The universe is "constantly growing".

But since every moment of its existence is the "origin of time". The universe has already "grown" to "infinite proportions".

There is nothing finite about it.

The "origin of time" is simply a mathematical concept.

Also, on postulate #2 of creation: Everything must occupy a singular point in space and time.

"Everything" can be equal to zero and still achieve the same results.

zero mass over zero space = infinite density.

I hope that clarifies my theory.
It does clarify your theory, but with the application of axis (I use a similar theory), what you describe is an event, the intersection being the 'event horizon' (not to be mistaken for the terrific horror film of the same name).But the interesting problem to the 'beginning or origin of the event is that it in our sense, has to have some interaction or action of the two axis (or the third..and so on). Infinity, to my understanding, is working in every direction, linear or multi-dimensional. So if we limit the concious actuality to an origin/event, and suggest that is the beginning of the universe, the theory then has to expand that our actuality is the result of other universes. This is not a new theory, but it escapes my mind (as often things do) who the prominent academic is on multi-universe thoery.
Very interaesting however is the understanding of the moment of the origin'event, and the concentration of temporal energy it would take to observe the singular moment for actuality. Also, if you think the process through such that axis a + axis b (+ all ather varible axis) = c (the origin or event) and then apply infinity theory, it is possible for the relativew outcomes to be infinite in possiblity. One posssiblity is a loop or return to interact with the previous axis on any given course...I hope you can see where I'm going with this...Dr Who has a clue..

But excellent reasoning, I have read some of you other thoughts and believe we share a similar opion about the extension and possible realizations of infinity theory.
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T

I am back again in reply to the man who mentioned Pizza Hut. Thank you. I am sure your tendencies are full from heart and that is all that matters. I consider you a friend, someone who I can talk to because of our differences. Sure it seems my enlightenment stems from products of materialsm, and without illicit substances; however, in the words of Ace Ventura, "Those are very lovely, but I am a child of light and I am no longer encumbered by the appetites of the flesh." To a point, we all delve in material posessions, as much as we wish we couldn't we do. I can say with pride though that when everyone else is buying expensive gas, i am across the street filling up with the most refined No Name brand gasoline(which is also the cheapest). And since reality TV was brought up I think I can say that that is just the politically correct term for broadcasted voyeurism. I am beyond the rejection of that which is advertised, I can say I like starbucks-it's well with me. In fact, I can't ever remember seeing a Starbucks commercial. Other businesses should do the same and in that, prosper. I encourage you sir, after it rains, take into consideration how blue the sky is and how green the grass is. I don't nature walk because I can find enough to look at in my living room, the chairs, my fish, my parrot. If you hate me you can soon put a face to your endevour, because i am to be a director of movies. Watch out for an animated film and the trilogy to Space Team. I am on the verge of laughing, so good day to you.
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T

Ahh, your response is that of an individual scorn...Which was not my intention! That be said, I urge you and challenge you to open the critical mind to the experince which you describe, and the very sub-concious effects of the external upon the majority of our actions. That is to say the world itself is a construct of the will of imagination, and we expand upon that with free thought and imagination. My suggestion is, that we are becoming moral slaves to the imposed values of the commercial enviroment in which we live. No, I too enjoy my commercial products, however, I feel that I understand the 'box' in which they operate (not which they came), and my interaction within this box is limited to the construct of the percieved conciousness. Now, lets go deeper into the very submission of our society into this box, this raified monster of society that we actually pay attention to and identifiy with representitive terms and definitions. No lets imagine a step outside of this box...its cold and frightening, and to stand alone is to feel defensless, until you realize the power of your observations and the all mighty power of your will. It is to this point I wish you to broaden your senses, and move forward into, allowing the realization of your concepts to be simply heard and then challenged...do they contain the might? Do they actualize the 'Right of Heroes'? Remeber, only the victors administrate the morals which define the difference between right and wrong.
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T

To those who are wondring who this is, It is hegel123, however my logging in is...weird..so refer to my ID from the string #. And remeber, the Universal Spirit is abroad, and the world moves only through the continous momentum of conflict.
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T

I dont know the first thing about these subjects, hope no one thinks i'm taking the piss but dan how can zero mass over zero space = infinite density? surely you mean zero density, have you every heard the phrase you can't get something from nothing, i don't mean to be disrespectful of yours or other peoples comments , but are these subjects clever names for contradiction or am i just missing the point completely?
on the subject of god, here goes for my spin on it.....
god is the term given to anything that man hasn't yet quantified,
i will give you lot a scene, caveman stands on the eadge of a cliff, watching a thunderstorm, he doesnot understand what it is and so thinks it mustbe a higher being or an act by a higher being.
modern man understands it is just an electrical discharge from the planets surface to opositly charged rain clouds, it has now been quantified and is disproved to be god.
i think this will eventualy will be the case with all things.
on the subject of the big bang , if there was nothing to start with what caused the universe to appear and then expand in the first place.

if nothing in philosophy can be everything where does that leave something?
er ok
the pin men /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T

god will never be disproved
god is everything and always

you will see someday.
Re: Theology, Philosophy and History Evidence of T


as for finding out someday, I agree, I do not fear death when the time comes simply because, if there is nothing after life I would not be aware of it, and if there was, then I would experience it any way. I speak as an athiest, although I think if your religeon gives you strength and support throughout life then that has got to be a good thing. hope i didn't offend with my comments on quantification of everything, as no offence was intended to anyone. tell me about your belief, I always want to learn a little more.

Keep it sweet , The Pin Men /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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