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Of Stars and Black Holes


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Think about this one before making any comments, I do accept that it might be considered as an off the wall theory, but I do have to say that Creedo´s last port inspired me.

A star as it shrinks it can become a neutron star or a black hole. Well Imagine that the black hole leads all that light back to the star that it once was, thus providing illumination to the universe´s past. This, if it were to be ever possible might be due to the fact that a star´s gravity filed greatly depresses the fabric of time, a black hole does the same. So If this off the wall theory could ever be proven all the stars in the universe are in fact the end side of black holes in this universe and from others.

Now read it, ponder it and bash it against the nearest wall, see what it comes out .

Until later becomes now.

This is a difficult concept to conceive. That's why I waited so long to even reply. I was waiting for someone else to reply so I could have more information to go on before sticking my two cents in. Where the light of the sun goes to when reduced to singularity has always been intriguing to me. Hell, the singularity itself is intriguing to me. It plays havoc with our normal linear thinking. For a while, the idea of white hole seemed the most plausible. All that energy has to go somewhere?
Wherever it goes, it's got to be the most energetic, brightest place we can even conceive of. Sounds like the PTP. I've believed for a long time that while the space/time displacement of a massive sun could have local effects, the displacement of a singularity could have non-local effects. It could even be the perpetual re-energizing of the PTP that must lose some of its energy in redirecting those who travel through the PTP to whatever points in time/space they are heading to. It certainly is a mind bender. I've bashed against several walls with this idea and the only thing that I get any kind of certainty out of it is that it contributes to the "push" of gravity through the constant bombardment of timeless/massless light against all objects in the universe. Therefore, a singularity millions of light years away could contribute to the rotatational spin of our local solar system. As Timothy Ferris, a cosmologist stated, the universe is of a piece. Beyond this, it's difficult to even fathom.
Transient, Iwill not comment the parent post but feel that the "white hole" misconception must be corrected. The equations of general relativity have an interesting mathematical property: they are symmetric in time. That means that you can take any solution to the equations and imagine that time flows backwards rather than forwards, and you'll get another valid solution to the equations. If you apply this rule to the solution that describes black holes, you get an object known as a white hole. Since a black hole is a region of space from which nothing can escape, the time-reversed version of a black hole is a region of space into which nothing can fall. In fact, just as a black hole can only suck things in, a white hole can only spit things out.

White holes are a perfectly valid mathematical solution to the equations of general relativity, but that doesn't mean that they actually exist in nature. In fact, they almost certainly do not exist, since there's no way to produce one. (Producing a white hole is just as impossible as destroying a black hole, since the two processes are time-reversals of each other.)

I,too, read the quotation you gave from the following site:


However, I didn't understand what you meant by misconception. Could you elaborate? There are many articles on the subject on white holes--some of them contradictory to each other--one even disputing the mathematical equations. The jury seems to be still out on this one. My statement on non-locality was mainly directed to the effect of black-hole singularity which is becoming an established fact--at least according to the very latest finding of a singularity at the heart of the Milky Way Galaxy. The rest was pure conjecture since there is the strong possibility that a white hole, if it exists, may not even have physical properties. I don't pretend to even understand this. However, it is intriguing to note that any light emerging from this singularity would necessarily be subjected to the "frozen" time that the event horizon of a black hole is theoretically said to contain. By playing the movie backward, which is how physics works, there had to be a first cause. This could argue for the case that the big bang was not a bang at all. Using current ideas on physics, it stands to reason that a particle as potent as is surmised to have existed at the time, then blew up to represent everything that now exists; it seems to me that this particle sounds amazingly like a singularity. Is it possible that this particle imploded rather than exploded? It is implied in Kabbalistic thinking that this might be exactly what happened, first creating a "tent" that flowed outward infinitely, containing everything within it including "frozen" light and creating the types of forms so beautifully represented by the graphics that Cat included in her post. Please elaborate on the misconception. My ideas are certainly not set in stone.
Re: Another unknown

DA and Robin

Well It was a simple goofy idea, but now that it was mentioned that a white hole probably has no mass, well I believe they will have none whatsoever. You see, a white hole would be composed of an enormous amount of ejecting light, AKA photons, and photons have no mass and spend no time in our realm, I mean universe.

Until later becomes now.
Re: Another unknown, Ed Note

Please note to the reader at this time level of year 2000 plus, on black hole mechanics.

In 85 last century, the Horowitz group, as assoicated with Hawking's proposal, that there were a set of double dynamic manifolds to the operational phases of black holes, proposed that white holes, were a set of mechanics, as proposed universally wide.

This is already known and has been widly published.

A white hole, would then not be a white hole, however an apperition of the mechanics of someone else, if derived in the posting prior to this one.

White holes, as proposed by circa Horwitz et al, would have to be a very common happening, with references to stellar mechanics, if this proposal as held by the subinvestigationary unit, is valid.

There are many, many, phases to the charicter of black holes, this is proposed as rotational, as well as nonrotational, double phased twin black holes, where a singularity is thought to be nonsquis.

This redo of the 1985 proposals, by the preceeding poster, points to some said values other than what the then valid 1985 investigational group had discovered under para, Hawking's askings.

The proposal of the new double decay investigation, via a new congress again, in 2002 may not be valid, as the investigators are looking for a manifold near the top of our frequency defined polar regions of black holes.

Sagan as well as others then, had proposed that eqitorial values, due to lower measured gravities, (collective), may be the route as access utility, to black hole event horizions, not the polar regions, as the would have to be ejecta points and therefor MUST, be areas of hot doublefolded manifestions of timespace.

FOR TIME TRAVLERS ONLY:The correct values of time and space as known to time travlers, are values held within T-mass protocols of entry.

See workings in proposaldom of John Titor, the proposed General Electric Time Displacement Unit of future, as well as T-mass protocols, of non-local twin (simulaited double kerr phenominons), the theory on initial startup periods, as professed within microseconds, of the T-shell varaint.

Thank you, the proceeding poster may now post, within any further interuption?
Maybe the energy/light that is ingested by the black hole or singularity, passes through a prism-like, vortex and gets sent out and dispersed into the universe, with a logic beyond our small understanding, to the tiny bits and points throughout the universe AS DARK ENERGY.

No one can really explain dark energy, let alone dark matter, but the arguments for this lurking, undetectable "something" that influences our universe and it's inhabitant matter/energy seem to be evident.

Maybe we can just connect the dots of these two mysteries.
There is energy disappearing into the the black holes, which we fathom is "converted" somehow. There is some form of energy, dark energy, lurking out there effecting the stars and systems etc. and this energy is quite different or altered. And, recent discoveries from Hubble suggest that the amount of dark energy is increasing, just as our black holes keep injesting. Coincidence?

Two pieces of the puzzle that maybe fit together?

Tha appropriateness of chance is astounding
There really must be a more OBJECTIVE state of the universe in which we inhabit, that is a timeless state.

We, living in time, can not easily see the "reason" of the workings, because of our particular perspective, but universally, there must be a state in which all things that have, are and will occur exist simultaneously.

And this ultimate "reality" has impact. We can especially detect this the farther we go from our specific perseptive, whether that be astronomically or sub-atomically.

Don't you think?

And if that is so, the "condition" at the point of a singularity must be something like a "key" or "True State" of timelessness or frozen time that co-exists in our perception of time and things.

Hmmn...very interesting....

The appropriateness of chance is astounding
Re: Of Stars //Creedo leave thread.

Note to posters and MOPs.

Creedo leaves thread, due to digression into said frozen time.

I have no idea what the previous poster is refering to, in my comments on black hole mechanics, did not apply to any tenents of frozen time?

Leaves thread on DNA mechanics via Host CAT//

This is so, as this person is leaving descriptions of stellar mechanics and takeing the term singularity so applying this term to genetics, which now seems to be being applied to the DNA helix??

Shape shown, looked vaugly somewhat like N-like Hebrewic nomenclaturic charicter, however this is not same exact efficature.

CAT had changed terms, of the now reinvestigation into what Hawking black hole mechanics are and reinvested them into genetics.

Changed academic argument, although somewhat qualified in this area, will not follow, will digress.

Due to conditions of overcrowding, which those in authority will have to deal with in one way or another.
Additionally there is an apparent weight placed upon the quality of life and futher down the line, genetics as in situ as well as pro-genetics engineering as a way of augmenting better lifeforms.

If conditions are not adjusted to become better ends, then what is the pourpose of those who leed and any attempted advanment in the quality of life-forms placed upon this planet.

This returns my comment to the macro-view, which indicates that mankind should be able to leave and go elsewhere if he-she wishes?

Leaves thread, leaves thread, leaves thread.

Thank you all participating, thank you MOP for your kindness and indulgence?
Re: Of Stars //Creedo leave thread.

Dear Creedo,

In my reference to frozen time, I am trying to imagine how the universe, or multiverse would be conceived of, if I were not I. In other words, I am trying to get an idea of the big picture of our existence by removing myself from my unique perspective.

I do this because I find that this mental exercise might lend insight into the nature of black holes, singularities, quantum mechanics, etc.

The idea of frozen time was brought up and it intrigued me. Please reference Julian Barbour's "The End Of Time" if you do not understand. It is an interesting read even if you do not agree with it's tenets.

Sorry you are leaving the thread.

Re: Of Stars solistic pizzas

Thank you Persper--

Read Bourbor, however do not get mixed into frozen times.

This tenent contrast sharply, with an active mode, for all gennera, of times as being portable to access.

Each time is each time, a redundency yes, however still accessabl;e.

To journey back into past times, must take both a powerfull ship, granted access to curriosity, and certain co-ords, which will allow such said access.

To look, however not touch, to be there, however not, to observe as it had happened, make just notations, however to who-whom?

Blast in the a**, pasta gas.

Thanks Persper
Re: Of Stars solistic pizzas

Dear Creedo,

Yes yes, I agree! The dangers of said "frozen time" can be alarming.

I think the confusion lies in differentiating a discussion about the possible entire nature of the universe (or multiverse) and a discussion about the dangers of phasing or shifting times.

I seem to have a desire to try and understand the complex form of the universe to better understand who I am and my place in this existence.

Your ditty made me laugh!

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