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For James Anthony - Multiverse



I've been wanting to address the question of Multiversity with you since this possibility seems to me to be the only escape from the impossibility of time travel in any singular universe, single timeline reality.

It still has problems for me however, even if I can't dismiss it out of hand.

Multi-verse theory is the result of the Einstein-Rosen bridge concept which itself has two manifestations. A macro-cosmic one called the Lorentzian, and a micro-cosmic one called the Euclidian.

In the Lorentzian, the formation of a Black Hole presents a "throat" of space-time for a brief instant before the actual formation of the singularity itself. This is now popularized as the "worm hole" of Star Trek et al. It in itself is not Time Travel, but does (in theory) represent a very nice short cut thru space, enabling the transverse of great distances in a Relatively short time. It is also the concept exploited in the "Contact" movie that Carl Sagan's book is based on. There ARE postualtions on how this could be exploited toward the concept of Time Travel, but THOSE hypotheses themselves tend to be based on theories that are THEMSELVES shaky at best. Einstein may have thought of the worm hole, but he also said we would never be able to control or exploit it. But of course, even he could wrong.

The Euclidian manifestation however is the source of multiverse theory. This is the area of Quantum Theory (QT) where cause/effect reversal takes place in current postulations. These same postulations also say that it can only ever occur at the Quantum level, not the macro-cosmic one. Interestingly, there are those who say the new TEVATRON at Fermilab in Chicago is dangerous because it could open up a possibly uncontrollable bridge during experiments due to the power availble to it. I can't recall the web site I read it on, but one fellow even postulated that this fall during experiments, some poor Star is going to collapse somewhere in our Galaxy into a black hole, and come erupting as a "white hole" in Chicago during a TEVATRON experiment. Unfortunately, he has his Bridge concepts confused.

I'll repeat what I've said before regarding my Occam Razor concept. The Universe is not so complicated as to require "multiplicity" of it's existence. Once we admit there is even ONE "parallel" universe, we are stuck with having to admit there may/must be an infinite number of them. My first simple question would be "why"? What does reality need with them?

For me, the only answer to THAT question is for the purpose of man to find ways to skirt the paradoxes in time travel. I doubt the universe is so obliging to the whimsical concepts of man. Even if it were true, it wouldn't really be Time Travel per se would it. It would be "dimension" travel or some other term pertaining to the necessity for going some "where" else before we would accomplish going some "when" else.

If LINEAR time travel "creates" new universes, then there is already an infinite number of them. In fact, if there is not an INFINITE number of them, there can only be one. No matter what scenario I can think of that allows multiple universes, no scenario allows for a SPECIFIC number of them. It's an all or nothing thing. One, or an Infinite number. If the infinite number DOES exist, then everything that can happen, or ever will happen, alrady has. If THIS is the case, then we get into the metaphysical area which includes the concepts of God or whaterever one's individual perception of existence itself is.

As I've said, if we get metaphysical with this Time Travel thing, I can't argue with ANYTHING. It's ALL possible in any manner you can think of it.

If we try to remain PHYSICAL about it, pragmatic even, multiversity simply goes against my onw sense of logic.

Sorry I can't come up with anything better than that for this theory. It just doesn't "feel" right. And I realize that and a couple of bucks will get me a cup of coffee if I stay away from Starbucks.

Thanks for your thoughts. It's a fun discussion.
Re:For Lee- Multiverse

Actually I came this forum tonight just to mention this topic and lo-and-behold you've just mentioned it.

I'd be the first to admit there are flaws in my thinking on the subject which I have recently come up with.

Firstly I beleive that should a multi-verse exist then there would be an infinite number of them which leads to the problem how can you distinguish between them. I mean it's not as if you can give each of them a number. I used to think that prehaps each universe had it's own unique frequency but if there are an infinite number of them how is it possible to have a different frequency for each?

Now the second argument is a set scenario. Okay say a fella named, oh lets call him Garry, invented a time machine which could not only travel through time but also space and also it could allow a density check to be carried out at the density so the traveller would not end up in a brick wall. Okay now Garry decides to test his machine by going back in time 5 minutes to the middle of the Amazon rainforest where it's unlikely his actions will change his future.
Now if the multi-verse theory holds water a new time-line would sprout from the moment that Garry arrived in the past. In this new time-line the Garry of this universe will still go back in time in 5 minutes time and his handy density checker won't allow him to arrive in the same position as the first Garry. So now we two Garry's because the first had to exist for the second to come back. And now a new time-line is created so a third Garry will go back in the next 5 minutes and so on and so forth. A bit of a problem when a couple of million, maybe billion clones appear in the middle of the rainforest don't you think?

I feel as though I've just killed my baby here but think of it as a retraction until some one can gracefully rescue some salvage...
Re:Re:For Lee- Multiverse

No, it's actually my same point regarding infinite "multiversity". If we allow for more than one, the only number possible is an infinite number.

Your 5 minute scenario is interesting. I recently read a short story, (I'll try to dig up the reference and post it), where the author assumes that if we can build a time machine, we can likewise build a time "window". I.e. - We can look through it without having to actually physically "go" through it. This leads to all sorts of problems that occur in the story such as:

If we can build a time window that will look "anywhere" at "anytime", 1/10th of a second ago is just as viable as 2 million years ago. Aim this "window" on your neighboor's bedroom 1/10th of a second ago and you are effectively peeping on him "now". The machine is outlawed for violation of privacy and rightly so.

(heh heh)
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